Certain Unit Advantages

[Eikon the Magistrate]

What would you reckon are the differences between towers and ladders??? i find ladders better as towers always burn down and ladders can get the archers of the walls fairly quickly. Also even when a siege tower is up, they take a while to get the men onto the walls. The only advantage i can see is that they can put a burst of men onto the walls when the step is first dropped. But yet again, towers can be burned when they are up, but the ladders are up they are up constantly unless an infantry unit destroys them.

Also, what would you prefur to do, breach a wall or siege the walls with infantry. I personally prefur to breach, but i can never do it because i get bored after making it that far

Good thing to remember is that if your tower is being attacked it is drawing the fire away from your other siege units allowing your ladder or ram to advance unopposed, which is why I try to to build as many ladders/towers as I can b4
the attack.

Also, as others have said... the objective is not the walls but the center of the town or w/e u attack soo.. try to breach and rush... 1/2 the time if you have cav they will make it to the objective b4 the defenders even clear off the walls all the way

[Askthepizzaguy]

ATPG's Combat Training Seminar, volume one.

Open field warfare:

Basic principles: If the opposing army has only one general, it may be a good idea to try to target that general at any cost. Formulate your entire strategy on taking out the captain or general, as the enemy army will crumble under lack of leadership.

Exceptions: If the enemy general is well protected (large bodyguard fit for a King, large amounts of heavy cavalry at the flanks) then do not attempt this strategy unless you are either a genius or a fool, and you would like to prove me wrong or be cut to pieces.

Basic principles: Infantry loves to hold the high ground. Downhill charges are among the most devastating maneuvers known to Medieval man, even when executed by poor infantry. The better the unit, the more impossible to deflect.

Exceptions: Poor infantry will not last long against supreme infantry, and when in melee, even from a position of being uphill, they rout easily from any flanking cavalry. Especially when that cavalry can manage to charge downhill into the backs of those in combat already. Avoid flanking cavalry on hills!

Basic principles: A long line of infantry is better than compact infantry, for flanking purposes.

Exceptions: Very good opposing infantry will make your center rout, and then the battle swings in their favour. Heavy cavalry can EASILY smash spread out troops. To absorb cavalry charges, position your troops DEEP rather than spread. To absorb heavy infantry for extended periods, do the same, and set to guard mode. Especially when defending a settlement's gate.

Basic principles: In this period of history, the heavy cavalry charge rules as the supreme method of winning a battle outright. The sheer amount of total devastation when practiced en masse is enough to swing the morale and numbers battle in your favor. Even more effective when attacking flanks, but still good when charging the enemy head on.

Exceptions: If the enemy has a mostly horse archer army, and the horse archers are good, and they also have spearmen... they can really rattle you. You could win in the end, but you have to pin the horse archers against the side of the map or inside of a settlement. They will rain death upon you and frequently return from being routed. Spread out your formations and encircle each unit or cluster of units to prevent hit and run maneuvers. Use whatever bogus infantry you have as meat shields.

Basic principles: Light cavalry and horse archers make excellent flanking units, and supreme routing unit destroyers. Use these even more effectively against infantry or any other unit that is already engaged in melee. They will be facing away from you and cannot take advantage of your poor armour. As an added bonus, if the enemy general escapes to rout, these are the only units capable of taking him down before he leaves the battlefield!

Exceptions: If the enemy has large amounts of heavy cavalry, you can be disappointed by such maneuvers. Do not engage unless their heavy cavalry is busy fighting something else.

Basic principles: Heavier infantry can absorb more punishment, longer than any other unit. Use for critical situations like holding a line from cavalry charges, taking walls, and fighting in the city streets and in the city center. These units are the ultimate Seige Tower unit.

Exceptions: These units cannot win unless they encircle horse archers, light cavalry, or other maneuverable units. And in the meantime, you will slowly bleed to death. Still vulnerable to flanking maneuvers and especially projectiles' "rain of death".

Basic principles: light infantry and archers make good flanking units. More maneuverable than heavy infantry, can engage those already fighting and wear them down from the flank or rear. The faster and the higher the attack rating, the better. Archer fire is more effective when angled in a direction that cannot be blocked by shields, from the flank, or from the rear, or from the sword-bearing side. These units are also great Ladder Units, as ladder units are toast in melee anyway, and the sole purpose of ladders is to either distract or take undefended walls.

Exceptions: Some more enterprising and creative generals may attempt different open field formations which involve two great masses of heavy flanking units, defensive spearmen in the center, and skirmishing units behind them to take advantage of the two-flank fighting. For armies with many, many archers, you can wear down the enemy with distracting general and cavalry/heavy infantry on the flanks, and worthless units in the middle defending your archers, who can rain death upon the enemy. However, if the enemy does a heavy charge into your soft and exposed center, you will gain a slight advantage by attacking them all from the flank and rear, but at the cost of your entire center line and archer compliment. Have them retreat to avoid such a fate. Don't get too risky with your troops unless you have no choice or are feeling daring or creative.

Basic principles: Spearmen are the most common and least versatile unit in the game. They fail against most kinds of heavier infantry, can be taken out with projectiles, generals, artillery, elephants, and even heavy and light cavalry flanking maneuvers! They are nothing more than meat shields, and will die en masse if used improperly.

Exceptions: Mercenary spearmen are good, disposable meat shields, and last longer in combat than militia spearmen and are just as good in most circumstances as your more advanced spear units. Their exorbitant cost also allows you the choice to be more careless with thier deaths. They cost you nothing once they are dead, and make excellent suicide squads. Good for armies in enemy territory who need reinforcement, great meat for the seige assault grinder (don't send in your own citizens who will gain experience from fighting first, let the entry-level mercenaries earn their paycheck or die trying). Also, spearmen can be rather devastating when placed in deep formation, especially in guard mode. In this mode, they last longer against prolonged melee, and make supreme city street defenders and defenders against heavy cavalry frontal charges, and they can be turned slightly to face away from the flanks to provide cover from flanking maneuvers. When used properly, spears can neutralize the advantage of cavalry. When used improperly, they are the most worthless unit in the game, little more effective than bands of peasants.

Basic principles: Peasants and pilgrims are nearly useless!

Exceptions: When commanded by Askthepizzaguy, or other great generals, these units can take over the entire world in just 28 short turns, and form the main line in most blitzkrieg armies until the mercenaries show up. They can distract while mercenary cavalry and generals pound the enemy to oblivion, and are the cheapest and most disposable "anvils" in the hammer and anvil combo. Arise peasantry, and fight with honour and courage! Let the cavalry do the butchering!!! Don't try this past turn 50 or so.

Other Exceptions: They can be used to make archers run away, or can fight archers to prevent them from raining death on your good troops. These units are fair enough wall defenders, especially when used en masse. Good defensive placeholders for real armies. I've personally beaten massive stacks of very good troops with a half stack of peasants and a castle to defend. They also make good distracting units for taking walls.... good units attack the center, and these worthless troops take ladders and fight from the flanks to wear down and divide the enemy. They make great arrow fodder, and can absorb cavalry charges so that your good spearmen don't have to take the hammer blow, and can then rush ahead and take down the horses at full strength and morale. In a pinch, these fools can be used to slowly wear down the enemy's general bodyguard at the town center. Even one bodyguard horseman is easily worth more than 30 peasants. So, your peasants will suffer, but your experienced and more valuable units don't need to die at the hands of superior heavy cavalry in town center melee. That is, if you care nothing for their lives. If you trade 3 units of peasants for one general, that's not a bad deal!

Hint: These make excellent ram units.

Basic Principles: Elephants; Supreme open field slayers of entire armies. But you won't have any of these to play with, chances are. Sucks to be you!

Exceptions: These poor fools rout when faced with artillery fire, and heavy flaming arrow rain will make them die. Also, javelin throwers are supreme cheap and maneuverable elephant slayers. Remember Rome Total War? The javelin is more effective than an arrow at killing these beasts. That's kind of what they were made for, slaying large animals.

Basic Principles: Artillery are fairly toast on the open field, as the enemy will stop at nothing to make sure they die first. You can get off a good shot or two, but you will eventually die.

Exceptions: Enterprising generals might use a neat combination of massive cavalry armies, and artillery surrounded by heavy spears to annihilate the enemy with few losses!

The heavy cavalry flank and destroy all in their path, and remain around the ring of fire (artillery in the center, spears pointing out) to gain protection. Massive amounts of heavy infantry or cavalry will rout.

Pros: Good anti-Mongol tactic! Cons: Your excellent mostly cavalry armies move slowly due to artillery.

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Seige Warfare:

Basic principles: The Ram: Single most important early era weapon to combat walls. Build at least one every time, but try to have at least one reserve ram. Ram units: Peasants, Pilgrims, and other completely worthless cannon fodder.

Exceptions: you have a ballista or preferably a catapult or better, these become worthless. Build ladders or seige towers instead. Rams can be used en masse as an interesting shield against sallying cavalry. Since the enemy cannot simply go through rams, they must go around. 6 rams can be used as a shield against large cavalry charges, much like stakes, but without the killing.

Basic Principles: The Ladder: Cheapest seige equipment available. Rush ahead of your main army with cavalry, and build several ladders and a ram. But always begin with the ladder, so you can autoresolve the city, if you feel like doing so. You can use ladders to distract the enemy or to put troops on undefended walls, also can be paired with flanking cavalry for a mini-seige tactic: undefended gates far away from the Main Assault Force can be taken with a simple unit of peasants, a ladder, and a bunch of cavalry. Use this to take the city center, wipe out their general, and otherwise bring death and destruction.

Exceptions: Don't really use these when trying to take defended walls. You are asking your troops to march single file into the enemy's spearpoints, a futile or otherwise wasteful tactic.

Basic Principles: The Seige Tower: Bwahaha! Easily the better choice when assaulting defended walls, unless you have catapults or better to annihilate the enemy where they stand. Build more than one of these unless you're just planning to use it to draw enemy arrow fire. Susceptible to flames, you will need many of them. But once you have a couple on the enemy's walls, the walls are basically useless. Any unit fighting the enemy on the walls will be fighting on nearly even terms, as they have the height advantage from exiting the seige tower and the local numbers advantage. These can also be used as arrow shields to defend your advancing seige army and cavalry while the ram does it's work. Then abandon the seige tower and rush towards the city center! This diversionary tactic works very well against an enemy formation of lots of troops on the walls, few on the ground. You can take the city center and hold it for three minutes, or slay the general and annihilate their army as they chain rout towards the city center!

Exceptions: If you have good artillery, these are basically useless, but I can't think of a single case where these would be actually detrimental to your cause. They are a giant wall of wood and metal to protect you and a means of taking defended and undefended walls. Where's the down side? Their only weak point is being able to be burned, and during heavy rain, that's unlikely. And if you have enough of them, it doesn't matter if a few go down. Build these whenever it is prudent.

Basic Principles: Elephants: These work just like rams, and are great for blasting through the city center and running amok inside the city.

Exceptions: Heavy arrow fire from the walls make these things useless, even detrimental to your army. If they run amok towards your heavy infantry, you might as well retreat from the battle and accept your loss. Artillery fire can also make them run amok, so ballista and catapults, cannons, and other things properly aimed at the gate can cause them to instantly rout towards you. The same is true for bridge battles. Don't lead with your elephants unless you want all your troops to die, unless they have no anti-elephant tactic.

Basic Principles: Artillery: Walls? What walls?

Only a Fortress or Citadel can possibly survive being breached by good artillery, but even then, if you remembered to bring more than one... your castle is as good as done for.

Exceptions:

If the enemy sallies effectively, these things are worthless. Thus, these things are good at forcing a sally.

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Special tactical situations:

Bridge assault:

Long range archers, artillery, heavy infantry and heavy cavalry will make this kind of battle an easy one! The best defense is pretty much the same. Lots of long range archers, artillery, cavalry, and spearpoints.

If you lack some of these, try the following:

Massive cavalry rush: Immediately charge the enemy before the AI can properly deploy against this tactic. Bunched up horses will push through even the most stubborn line. Works also in seige situations. But not against capable human opponents.

Rain of Death: Put your best defender up front and move halfway across the bridge, blocking all access to your archers. Rain death upon them!

Suicide squads: Bring along 3 stacks of high morale units. Strike one stack per battle, and wear down the enemy in a single turn. You will lose lots of men, but you can penetrate even the most solid bridge defense, because they will slowly lose troops, and without another turn to bring reinforcements, they will finally fail. No bridge defense can withstand more than 3 stacks. So if you're a blitzer in a human V human battle, and you have massive spammed infantry, you can break their defense with phyrric victories. But I still would attempt to bring some archers, artillery, or heavy cavalry to mop up the mess.

Bridge defense:

Your defensive advantage is nullified if the enemy can cross the bridge in most examples, unless you also have a nice set of hills to defend. So the objective here is to hold the bridge and slay the enemy en masse.

Let the enemy cross, but rain death upon them with artillery, arrows, javelins, anything you can toss at them. Prevent them from exiting the bridge with Deep formations of heavy infantry or spears, depending on if it is infantry or cavalry crossing. defending against elephants requires projectiles and distance, you will not hold elephants with infantry. You can slow them down with cannon fodder while the elephants are attempting to cross the bridge, taking advantage of their lack of mobility.

For a good bridge defense, you need lots of good troops, and reinforcements with night fighter ability, to nullify the suicide squad tactic and night assaults. The more flaming arrows, artillery, and heavy infantry, the better.

Ambushes:

You've managed to surprise the enemy! Good!

Now, take advantage of his disorder. You need to strike the enemy general, who is exposed, immediately, or try to take out his spread out units before he can reinforce them. Use LOTS OF HEAVY AND LIGHT CAVALRY. Infantry is fairly worthless, as are archers, as they take too long and cannot take advantage of the surprise.

Forest/snow/desert battles:

Any units with forest, snow, or desert combat bonuses here are useful. Infantry is very important in the forest, as cavalry units are too easily spooked by hidden troops, and they move slowly in thick wood. Archers and artillery are mostly useless, so don't bother. More infantry, more infantry, more infantry. Some flanking heavy cavalry is useful. Horse archers are totally worthless except to scout for any hidden troops, but again they spook too easily. If you have elephants, these are good for destroying tight infantry formations.

Here ends the lesson. I hope you have learned something new from this refresher course on the basics of combat. For more advanced techniques or for unusual situations or specific battle hints, do not hesitate to ask, and I will respond publicly or privately to any tactical question.

Dismissed!

-Drill Master ATPG

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Addendum:

Ultimate light cavalry!

Spam as much light cavalry at the beginning of your campaign as possible, and fight all the rebels and infantry you can. Make them rout, and continue to build experience until you have your gold chevrons. Then retrain these units in places with armourers' workshops.

Now you have Fast, High Morale, Armoured Horsemen of Doom!

Any faction with decent starting light cavalry, or horse archers, will enjoy marching their fast, light, well experienced and armoured horsemen of doom all over the map, and reinforcing them is a cinch! Just strike any nearby wooden castle or better and retrain more!

[Old Geezer]

ATPG's note on the value of fast light cavalry is very insightfull. After several Scottish campaigns I have learned how to rely on Border Horse and Bodyguards in the early going and then Hospitalers for the later period. Border Horse even have a decent attack value and once they have some experience (even just one chevron) are extremely effective against any unit except bodyguards if used properly. They can even help to destroy the AI's bodyguards units if you attack the AI bodyguard with some heavy cavalry or pin them with some infantry. Light cavalry makes the AI's archers just about totally useless - even pavaise crossbowmen. The best part about the Border Horse is that with a swordsmith upgrade and silver or gold chevrons they remain effective to deal with the Mongols and Timurids. The AI is now so aggressive that usually their archers advance and when my Border Horse charge they never even get off a first volley before they are hit and route or are killed before the spears can arrive. The fast cavalry also seems to be able to disengage quicker and more reliably than the heavier noble cavalry. I like to have at least 3 of these in an army and pair 2 on one wing and the other on the opposite wing with my general. If you double time them they can get behind the enemy and charge into their rear just as the enemy is hitting your front line. Sometimes they need to reform again but rarely do they need a third charge before the whole army routes. The only drawback with them is that they require very close supervision as do Jinetes. The best part of the Border Horse is the low recruitment and maintenance costs, which factors endear them to any true Scot or Welshman.

[Askthepizzaguy]

If you allow your light horsemen to sit and be defeated in melee, you aren't using them properly. They definitley require a bit of babysitting, as Old Geezer suggests. Unless they are triple gold chevron, armoured, and have weapon upgrades, I wouldn't let them battle it out with heavy cavalry.

These guys can be used as hit and run cavalry as opposed to heavy lance/melee to death cavalry. Just charge, run away, charge, run away. They are light and maneuverable. Flank and Flank.

Use them in pairs, attack one side of the enemy, attack the other side while the other one retreats, and attack again while the second one retreats.

Instead of hammer and anvil, it's the hammer and hammer tactic. Also effective with heavy cavalry, but they don't turn and escape as quickly and they mostly use formed charges which are harder to pull off.

When up to gold chevron, they can make excellent general hunters. Make them run all around to the back of the enemy army, engage the front with melee troops, and begin to make them chain rout with light cavalry to the rear attacks. This will draw out the general, so use about 3 or 4 light cavalry gold chevron units and surround n' pound him to death while his army loses all their morale. You can at least pin the general while your general and heavy cavalry finishes off the enemy army wholesale. You can also use these light horses to slay the general when he finally routs, as mentioned previously.

Kill all the mounted routers with your light horse, and all the infantry routers with your generals and heavy cavalry.

Once you have gold chevron light cavalry armies, begin training your heavy lances to get gold. Unlike general's bodyguards, these units are IMMORTAL and if you keep them retrained, are larger and more effective in combat than general's bodyguards. Can almost be left alone in a sea of spears, as they seem to be invincible to all but the most determined spearmen, and artillery fire.

Light cavalry seige tactic:

Usually the enemy doesn't have cavalry waiting at home, save for the general. But sometimes they do have heavy cavalry. Lay seige with a bunch of light cavalry and a general.

The enemy will sally. Retreat to the corner of the map and wait for them to charge after you.

lead them on a wild chase, wearing out their infantry. Use your light horse spread out so you can pick off entire bands of stragglers. Let the enemy general chase your light horse and draw him away from his troops, or let his troops get far, far away from the city center. Now, send a unit of light cavalry to take the city center and hold it for 3 minutes. During which time the enemy MUST retreat to the city center.

To Provoke them into sallying ALL their troops, sneak in a unit of light horse and take the city center, then run away. All the AI troops will then sally to kill you.

While the enemy is in full retreat, dismantle any infantry with your cavalry. The general will most likely attempt to rush to the city center, leaving his entire army general-less and defenseless.

Use your own general and mop up the mess.

If you can manage to hold the city for 3 minutes, good. If not, you've effectively destroyed everything but the general. You can attack his general with yours and your light cavalry, but alternatively you can just wait for the battle to be over or make all your units "rout" using the white flag button. Be sure to do this near the edge of the map so they don't rout towards the city center. Hire any mercenary infantry and use a ram to open the gates, then slay the enemy general with few, if any, losses to your general and 4 light horse army.

Destroy massive garrisons! Plunder, loot, and pillage! Women, ale, men if that tickles your fancy. The settlement is yours, and you took it with a tiny, tiny quarter stack of cavalry. Bravo!

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=100126
Click the link for a battle replay which shows this tactic in action!

[Old Geezer]

Perhaps we need to stop discussing how to use light cavalry effectively or CA may decide to "nerf" them in some future patch or expansion.

One drawback which I am finding is that my swordsmen are not gaining as much experience as they usually do because I have been relying on Border Horse and pike militia (since removing their secondary "weapon" of rubber knives). Taking losses doesn't concern me much because they can be retrained so cheaply at any castle.

I just fought a Portugese army with some jinetes and were surprised how well the border horse closed and thrashed the jinetes with minimal losses. The AI tries to throw the javelins but doesn't have time to do so before the charge takes effect and kills about half of the jinetes on impact. It doesn't work well if the enemy has 3 jinetes to your one border horse (or alan cavalry) because the unengaged jinetes will kll a lot of border horse in a couple of volleys.

[Mek Simmur al Ragaski]

A very interesting essay, ATPG, i might try a few of them out

[Forlorn Hope]

anybody got any decent tactics of how to win a woodland battle?

= Don't!

I always like to have a mix although i tend to have a higher proportion of heavies. Light cavalry are generally just ace for sneaking round the side or making surprise charges on ranged units/routers/artillery/light infantry/cavalry already engaged....basically anything! Although admittedly if they get charged by anything or get stuck in melee than they get mashed