Attack on Ghaza

[Fragony]

Of course they can. History have plenty of examples of superpowers being defeated by people flinging rock(et)s at them. Partial or complete. Most rebellions/guerilla wars start off like this, and many of them have won. The russian revolution, for example, started by terrorist actions like assassinations, bank robberies, bombings etc.

Let me fill you in on what we discussed earlier, Pannonian brought up that talking to Hamas was a good idea because it's a single entity in contrast with the various sections that make the life of america in Iraq so difficult, completily won me over but is it really a single entity, as in being a well organised machine, it is probably more of a gang that's supported by the powers beyond any influence of Israel. They can easily maintain that situation, and the whole islamic world is looking at this tiny piece of desert.

[HoreTore]

Well, the russian revolutionary movement certainly did not start out as a single, coordinated movement, and they were divided even when they succeeded.

[Fragony]

Well, the russian revolutionary movement certainly did not start out as a single, coordinated movement, and they were divided even when they succeeded.

They are trying to isolate Israel, and the weapon is propaganda. I take these russian revolutionary's used tactics as well, maybe others but no tv and internet then, but probably close in it's own way. Can't believe so many fall for it. Even more amazing how the jew-runned media is campaigning against the islam but that's a sidethought.

[HoreTore]

They are trying to isolate Israel, and the weapon is propaganda. I take these russian revolutionary's used tactics as well, maybe others but no tv and internet then, but probably close in it's own way. Can't believe so many fall for it..

huh?

[Fragony]

huh?

huh what? Be a little more specific did it came from your belly or your lungs

[HoreTore]

huh what? Be a little more specific did it came from your belly or your lungs

As in "huh? What do you mean?"...

[Fragony]

As in "huh? What do you mean?"...

Well I said it very clearly Israel is being isolated in a propaganda-war.

[Viking]

The Israeli government consists of a bunch of oversized babies.

"You killed five citizens of my country, now I'll five of yours."

Since Israel is supposed to be the "civilized" nation in the region, they should act civilized too.

[Pannonian]

Let me fill you in on what we discussed earlier, Pannonian brought up that talking to Hamas was a good idea because it's a single entity in contrast with the various sections that make the life of america in Iraq so difficult, completily won me over but is it really a single entity, as in being a well organised machine, it is probably more of a gang that's supported by the powers beyond any influence of Israel. They can easily maintain that situation, and the whole islamic world is looking at this tiny piece of desert.

Well it was enough of a centralised entity at that point. Hamas had won the last elections, they'd successfully expelled the Fatah armed forces from Gaza but the paramilitaries were still, at the time at least, content to allow the political wing to speak for them. It wasn't the best possible time for Israel to talk to them, as they'd just enjoyed military success that might have gone to their heads, but it was probably the last chance in quite a while for the politicians to assert themselves over the fighters. I warned at the time, IIRC in a reply to Seamus, that Israel had to take the chance then or the extremists will take over.

This past year proves, yet again, that wielding the stick of moral outrage without the carrot of political compromise just doesn't work. Complain all you want about how Israel is expected to yield on everything while the pansy liberals give the Palestinians all the leeway they want, but the fact remains that the Palestinians aren't in any position to do anything at all. The only thing they can proactively do is throw stones or fire rockets around, and not very effectively at that, and so that's what they do. Israel is the only party with the power to make anything happen, so any effective solution is going to rely far more on Israeli action than Palestinian.

[Fragony]

Well it was enough of a centralised entity at that point. Hamas had won the last elections, they'd successfully expelled the Fatah armed forces from Gaza but the paramilitaries were still, at the time at least, content to allow the political wing to speak for them.

Good but it isn't like we are raising a child

[Crazed Rabbit]

Huh. Apparently when you ceaselessly launch rockets at another state, they eventually get mad and try to kill you.

Even more amazing is that some people are calling that action 'childish'. Too foolish to warrant a response.

Pannonian - by British model do you mean the Northern Ireland peace process? You are aware the situations are hardly comparable?

And what gives you cause to believe the political wing of Hamas is any different from the military wing?

CR

[Beirut]

Apparently when you ceaselessly launch rockets at another state, they eventually get mad and try to kill you.

Are you talking about Palestinian rockets into Israel or Isreali rockets into Palestinine?


Israel vs. Palestine: Round 6437

Ding!

C'mon, lemme at 'em

[Tribesman]

Even more amazing is that some people are calling that action 'childish'. Too foolish to warrant a response.

Talking of foolish , you do realise why the action is childish don't ya rabbit ? It is because it doesn't work , they know it doesn't work , they have seen many many times that it doesn't work , but like an obstinate child they are going to ignore all they should have learnt and make another doomed attempt .
The funny thing is that many of the people of Israel are not as childishly stupid as their government is , the people of Israel want talks with Hamas not another doomed incursion .
The people know that every failed venture weakens the State further and makes them look very bad , it is about time the Israeli government grew up and acted accordingly .

[ICantSpellDawg]

Talking of foolish , you do realise why the action is childish don't ya rabbit ? It is because it doesn't work , they know it doesn't work , they have seen many many times that it doesn't work , but like an obstinate child they are going to ignore all they should have learnt and make another doomed attempt .
The funny thing is that many of the people of Israel are not as childishly stupid as their government is , the people of Israel want talks with Hamas not another doomed incursion .
The people know that every failed venture weakens the State further and makes them look very bad , it is about time the Israeli government grew up and acted accordingly .

I agree - the Israeli actions are heavy-handed and do not work. They simply put more fuel on the fire.

I support them in defending themselves, but not by killing 100 people (46 of whom probably had nothing to do with it.) Do you see Tribesman? I support the Colombian action, I support coalition action in Iraq and Afghanistan, but not these types of draconian actions which seem to target men, women and children carelessly and out of vengeance.

[Pannonian]

Pannonian - by British model do you mean the Northern Ireland peace process? You are aware the situations are hardly comparable?

And what gives you cause to believe the political wing of Hamas is any different from the military wing?

CR

I always get this riposte of how Northern Ireland is a completely different picture to Israel-Palestine. And yet, despite basing my perspective on what I know of the Northern Ireland process, my predictions of what would happen have hardly ever been wrong.

BTW, have you forgotten the trip some former IRA members made to Palestine a couple of years ago? I remember talking about how former Republican hardliners drove the switch to a political approach while they were still in prison, and people dismissing that story with the comment that Israel-Palestine is completely different from Northern Ireland. Then less than a month after I wrote that post, a combined group of Fatah and Hamas members in Israeli prison made such an offer, backed by Fatah and those elements of Hamas which were based in Palestine. Some time later, that IRA trip, which happened just before this, came to light. So, is Palestine really that much different from Northern Ireland?

[Tribesman]

Do you see Tribesman? I support the Colombian action, I support coalition action in Iraq and Afghanistan, but not these types of draconian actions which seem to target men, women and children carelessly and out of vengeance.

Well strictly speaking its the wrong topic , but since you mention it Tuff and it does kinda link to options being put forward in this topic ... As you and your government support the Columbian action can you name other governments (apart from Columbia) that support the action ?
Can you name governments that are really really annoyed at Columbia since killing the negotiator in Equador that the governments were dealing with through the Equadoran government have sent the talks right down the pan .
Can you see the similarity ?
Two nations , both key regional allies of the US , both need to talk to sort their problems , both do get involved in talks to varying extents ...but then send the whole thing down the pan and its America that says "thats the right thing to do " .
Its a bit bloody silly isn't it , one could certainly call it childish .

Pann regarding that last post of yours , do you remember the Fenians in Columbia ? the ones that said they were there discussing the peace process with FARC ?
What are the sticking points in the Columbian process ?
Is it demilitarisation , prisoner releases , disarmament , political representation , partial amnesty ...kinda just like somewhere else eh .

[naut]

After having studied this topic in high school Modern History, who cares, in all honesty if they want to bash each others brains out let them do it.

[Vladimir]

Guess who these people are and what they're celebrating.

[Ser Clegane]

Hmmm ... ... Scotsmen, celebrating yesterday's victory of the Glasgow Rangers?

[Incongruous]

Huh. Apparently when you ceaselessly launch rockets at another state, they eventually get mad and try to kill you.

Even more amazing is that some people are calling that action 'childish'. Too foolish to warrant a response.

Pannonian - by British model do you mean the Northern Ireland peace process? You are aware the situations are hardly comparable?

And what gives you cause to believe the political wing of Hamas is any different from the military wing?

CR

Know what ele is interesting?

That when you perform a hostile take over of a peoples' home they tend not to like it. They get even more angry when the rest of the world seems to think it's ok.
When these invaders are better armed than the native inhabitants, the natives use tactics whereby they can hurt quickly then dissapear quickly.

Don't give me the old tome of the U.S in Israel, "they don't target civilians" that's bollocks, and it does not matter to those whom lose family. They still don't have fathers and mothers.

So Rabbit, what would you do if the chinese decided to use some obscure and old book to claim america and started building apartments on top of you're life?

[Viking]

Too foolish to warrant a response.

If anything is foolish, it is to repeat ones own mistakes rather than learning from them.