I say let'em blow each other to bits of some dumb cults. See if I care
Re: Attack on Ghaza
I say let'em blow each other to bits of some dumb cults. See if I care
There, but for the grace of God, goes John Bradford
My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.
I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation.
Re: Attack on Ghaza
Hey Rabbit how is the phraseslightly different froma normal response
a normal response to the crimes of the occupier and its murder of civilians,
BTW did you see the protests by the settlers at the school ?
were the shouting
A Death to murderers
B Death to terrorists
C Death to Hamas
D Death to arabs
If the answer is D then how are they any different from those others you condemn .
Oh and just one query , that story you link to , it says that the soldier who shot the terrorist rushed from home when he heard the shooting , it doesn't mention that the person who shot the murderer was already at the school , was a student and is a soldier (I was quite surprised by that really given the ongoing controversy with the yshiva students and the military).
Re: Attack on Ghaza
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/961696.html
This is what makes them different, all demographic reasons aside, a lot just want their 72 goats.
Re: Attack on Ghaza
Ah well every cloud has a silver lining , at least we can get a small laugh out of this recent tragedy .
America walks out of a UN meeting that was to issue a condemnation of the killing of civilians in this latest episode , apparently the motion was blocked because certain countries did the same as America did the other day .
Ah the good old Negroponte principle , apparently america only likes principles when they are imposed on its own terms , when others use those same terms they throw a hissy fit .
Re: Attack on Ghaza
Speaking of civilians, how come only Israeli's get killed but never Israeli civilians. At least in our newspapers that is, odd.
Re: Attack on Ghaza
Originally Posted by Pannonian
If they ever have tried or will try it in the future, it will not work. Peace starts with peace.
That does not mean that the great Isreali fences should be demolished ASAP, since they seem to do a good job at keeping the virgin chasers at bay.
No, stop the pointless attacks in the Palestinian lands who can only make the whole situation worse.
Last edited by Viking; 03-07-2008 at 11:45.
Runes for good luck:
[1 - exp(i*2π)]^-1
Re: Attack on Ghaza
The media here almost always differentiates between Israeli civilians and military. The only reasons I can think of for not differentiating, would be a lack of information, bad reporting, or a bias that seeks to slant the story in a certain way.
A story that cites, for example, "Ten Israelis killed by rocket" makes Israel look like the victim and the Palestinians like murderers. Switch that to "Ten Israeli soldiers killed by rocket" and it makes the Isrealis look vulnerable and the Palestinians like effective soldiers.
I'm not saying that's what is happening, bit I'm sure it has happened.
Unto each good man a good dog
Re: Attack on Ghaza
Not here, they do mention it when it are palestinian citizens, it's obvious bias.
Re: Attack on Ghaza
Guess who these people are and what they're celebrating.
Reinvent the British and you get a global finance center, edible food and better service. Reinvent the French and you may just get more Germans.
Ik hou van ferme grieten en dikke pinten
Down with dried flowers!
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Re: Attack on Ghaza
Hmmm ...... Scotsmen, celebrating yesterday's victory of the Glasgow Rangers?
Re: Attack on Ghaza
They found that candybar they thought they lost?
Re: Attack on Ghaza
You've all heard the arguments. Israel was a land formed to give Jews a place of their own to keep them from being the targeted subgroup in a hundred other countries. There was no Palestine save as a label on an Ottoman map, so how could we steal a country that never was from a people who no different culturally from those of a half dozen surrounding states? Others argue that the UN carved up land and gave it to illegal immigrants, taking it from the people who'd lived, worked, bred there for centuries -- regardless of who claimed to "own" this land. A culture and a people were shoved aside wihtout even a real say in the decision. Why would such a people not fight to regain what had been theirs for centuries? Favor whichever theory you would. In quest of a resolution, it matters little.
Pannonian is asking the only question that really matters. Do you want resolution, or the same-old/same-old?
Current methods of retaliation intermingled with negotiation are producing an ongonig low-level conflict which will never truly stabilize. Successful negotiation with the surrounding states has produced usable results. However key elements of both parties in the Isareli/Palestinian "dispute" want all the land of the West Bank, Judea, Gaza, Samaria, and Galilee under one dominion and are not particularly interested in the other party's claim. There is no real way to establish a dmz and leave one another alone as has occurred, de facto, with Egypt and Syria.
If Israel seeks resolution they must choose:
a) complete a proper conquest of the region by ejecting/exterminating anyone who would contest control of the territory in question along with anyone living there who does not avidly accept Israeli rule.
b) a passive defensive strategy that uses fences, guardposts, counter-intelligence etc. to prevent attacks where possible. A strategy that arrests and try as civilian criminals those caught committing crimes in territory commonly thought of as Isreali [note: I mean accepted as such in practice. I am fully aware that many on the Palestinian side officially deny all territorial claims by Isareal] -- but a strategy that does not retaliate. The stance would be: we'll protect our ownwhere we can, but we will not hunt you or harm your children or attack your homes. This would involve Israel absorbing numerous casualties for years-- without a counterattack -- until the militant components of Fatah and Hamas are marginalized by arab/palestinian public opinion as "baby-killers" and lose so much political power that the pro-negotiation political wings gain ascendency and broker an agreement that they have a real interest in keeping.
Both alternatives carry a high political price and Israel has no political party or movement of a sufficient strength to absorb the political cost of either strategy while seeing that strategy to completion. Therefore, things will continue as they are.
"The only way that has ever been discovered to have a lot of people cooperate together voluntarily is through the free market. And that's why it's so essential to preserving individual freedom.” -- Milton Friedman
"The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." -- H. L. Mencken
Re: Attack on Ghaza
Oh please, Hamas is the Palestinians in Gaza. They were elected and now supported by Palestinians. There's no way you can 'support Palestinians' without support the group that completely leads the Gaza strip.
Unless you say you 'support them' but disagree with everything they do.
Tell me, how does attacking Israel make it easier for them to survive? It seems like exactly the opposite in reality.
FYI, Hamas claimed responsibility:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080307/...ians_israel_dc
CR
Ja Mata, Tosa.
The poorest man may in his cottage bid defiance to all the forces of the Crown. It may be frail; its roof may shake; the wind may blow through it; the storm may enter; the rain may enter; but the King of England cannot enter – all his force dares not cross the threshold of the ruined tenement! - William Pitt the Elder
Re: Attack on Ghaza
I'm afraid that is the sad truth. And the ones that aren't are dead. I think Israel should retake Ghaza and keep it. And continue to do what it is doing now, trying to pick of the leadership whenever possible and without being too squimish. It's the middle east if you show weakness you are dead.
Re: Attack on Ghaza
Hitler is Germany and Germany is Hitler. Is that it?
I completely and utterly disagree. That viewpoint is far too simplistic and convenient, and acknowledges no individuality of thought or ideals amongst a people. It's the exact same thing as saying that because Bush supports the war in Iraq, all Americans support the war in Iraq. And I'm sure neither of us is naive enough to believe that.
I disagree with some of what they do. I think targeting civilians is an illegal and immoral act.
No man is bound by any law to stand still and be hit. Even if hitting back seals his fate, it's still his right, and the right thing to do. There is also the truth that many weak blows against a superior foe can have a cumulative effect that benefits the weaker party. History would agree with that.
Okay.
Unto each good man a good dog
Re: Attack on Ghaza
Did we fight a war against Hitler or Germany? It doesn't matter where individuals stand on an issue only how a nation acts on it.
Last edited by Vladimir; 03-07-2008 at 18:17.
Reinvent the British and you get a global finance center, edible food and better service. Reinvent the French and you may just get more Germans.
Ik hou van ferme grieten en dikke pinten
Down with dried flowers!
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Re: Attack on Ghaza
How can you say that when they only got 44% on a 76% turnout ?Oh please, Hamas is the Palestinians in Gaza. They were elected and now supported by Palestinians.
If you remember , the main swing away from Fatah in the weeks preceeding the election was due to the corruption scandals .
Yes you can , unless of course you are the sort of muppet who for example hates Americans because Bush is an idiot .There's no way you can 'support Palestinians' without support the group that completely leads the Gaza strip.
Nope that don't work either Rabbit , since that would mean you don't support hospitals and food aid .Unless you say you 'support them' but disagree with everything they do.
What you should have said is you " support the alright stuff they do but condemn the nasty stuff " ....but hey I don't want to make thing too complex for ya to understand
Re: Attack on Ghaza
We fought Germany in WWII.
Bush does not have complete control of the control; if the Democratic majority congress wanted to, they could cut off funds right now and bring the troops back. He is not the be all and end all of America.I completely and utterly disagree. That viewpoint is far too simplistic and convenient, and acknowledges no individuality of thought or ideals amongst a people. It's the exact same thing as saying that because Bush supports the war in Iraq, all Americans support the war in Iraq. And I'm sure neither of us is naive enough to believe that.
What demonstrations in Gaza have there been against Hamas, against terrorism? Hamas is unopposed in their rule. They direct all the actions in Gaza. All that the Palestinians do, is directed by Hamas.
All of the Palestinian 'resistance' in Gaza is Hamas. Do you support Hamas or Israel in the current conflict? They are the only two actors. Or is it 'I support Hamas but only when they don't try to kill civilians (as they usually do)'?
Sheesh. Israel wasn't attacking before, were they?No man is bound by any law to stand still and be hit. Even if hitting back seals his fate, it's still his right, and the right thing to do. There is also the truth that many weak blows against a superior foe can have a cumulative effect that benefits the weaker party. History would agree with that.
Strawman argument.
CR
Ja Mata, Tosa.
The poorest man may in his cottage bid defiance to all the forces of the Crown. It may be frail; its roof may shake; the wind may blow through it; the storm may enter; the rain may enter; but the King of England cannot enter – all his force dares not cross the threshold of the ruined tenement! - William Pitt the Elder
Re: Attack on Ghaza
Hmm, maybe if they upgraded their walls it would reduce squalor and decrease unrest.
Last edited by Vladimir; 03-07-2008 at 22:38.
Reinvent the British and you get a global finance center, edible food and better service. Reinvent the French and you may just get more Germans.
Ik hou van ferme grieten en dikke pinten
Down with dried flowers!
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Re: Attack on Ghaza
Errrr...no , nope and errrr...no , try again Rabbit .Hamas is unopposed in their rule. They direct all the actions in Gaza. All that the Palestinians do, is directed by Hamas.
Oh you did try again ........and once again that is a no .All of the Palestinian 'resistance' in Gaza is Hamas.
wow you really are on a run there , thats another no , well done , keep up the bad work .Do you support Hamas or Israel in the current conflict? They are the only two actors.
Here have a clue Rabbit , or even a couple incase its too hard to get with just one
Which is the Iranian backed damascus based Gaza orientated organisation that has since the unilateral withrawel been launching the rockets into Israel from Gaza?
Which is the group that though it shares some ideologies with Hamas has been involved in some rather nasty and bloody fights with Hamas(just like it was with fatah)?
Which isthe group that refused to back Hamas in the fight against Fatah?(or for that matter which splintergroup from Fatah is still there ?)
Which areas of Gaza does it still control territory in ?
BTW which other groups have still not ceded control of their domains to Hamas in Gaza?
Re: Attack on Ghaza
Are they still split into Syria Hamas and Gaza Hamas? During that prisoner offer I mentioned in the previous page, Gaza Hamas and the Hamas political wing were in favour of it, but Syria Hamas rejected it. Some time later, the leader of Syria indicated that his faction had changed its mind, and was now supporting it. I can't remember what happened after that.
Re: Attack on Ghaza
I know my dad did.
And we thank God for that every day.
When a people are ostracized by everyone. When they are lied to by everyone. When they are used by everyone. When they are born in a concentration camp and see their death happening in a concentration camp. When those who lord over them treat them brutally and dehumanize them at every opportunity, it is obvious that they will grasp at any power of authority that represents them and is willing to fight back against their most lethal enemy.
Hamas is a creation of the circumstances the Isrealis inflict upon the Palestinians.
I support the Palestinians. I do not support Israel. I think both sides are wrong when civilians are targeted. I think the Palestinians have every right to attack Israeli military targets.
What's this "Strawman! Strawman!" stuff, drives me nuts. Am I supposed to think I'm the scarecrow in the Wizard of Oz and run away?
Israel has been attacking daily since 1948. They've been treating the Palestinians like a lower species for decades, illegally occupying their land, stealing their resources, subjecting their people to torture, murder, arbitrary arrest, and every cruel and inhumane condition one man can put upon another. If any people on Earth have the right to fight back, it's the Palestinians.
Unto each good man a good dog
Re: Attack on Ghaza
Yes , but none of what I wrote relates to that , it relates to other factions and groups that Rabbit missed when he came out with the extremely incorrect "there is only Hamas" line .Are they still split into Syria Hamas and Gaza Hamas?
Re: Attack on Ghaza
http://www.adl.org/Anti_semitism/gaza_cartoons.asp
Pitytude galore hit someone and start crying yourselve disgusting. Sometimes I get the feeling that genocide is underapreciated.
Re: Attack on Ghaza
Some of those cartoons were terrible, but one or two were well done.
I like the idea of the article, though, "Yeah, sure we destroyed a whole city block in Gaza and killed a dozen little kids, but those cartoons you're drawing of us are really over the line."
Unto each good man a good dog
Re: Attack on Ghaza
This one is funny. As for the rest, some nerve they have.
Re: Attack on Ghaza
Looking at those pictures they are a bit more extreme but suprisingly similar to the kind of propagnada britian put out about germany during WW1 and maybe WW2, when you think that the population of britian resorted to such during WW1 when only the men fighting were being killed, imagine how much worse the propaganda would have been if germans were killing british civilians daily...
In remembrance of our great Admin Tosa Inu, A tireless worker with the patience of a saint. As long as I live I will not forget you. Thank you for everything!
Re: Attack on Ghaza
Yes It has worked so well for American security. Like it or not, you're nation is blamed in a big way by the Palestinians for the steeling of their land.
So face up to it.
Again, how have the Palsetinians ever been gien a fair chance of free and fair governance?
Bloody never.
Pathetic.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tW1-_JmXQt0&NR=1
Sig by Durango
-Oscar WildeNow that the House of Commons is trying to become useful, it does a great deal of harm.
Re: Attack on Ghaza
Probably terrible to say, but I'd inclined to agree.
Re: Attack on Ghaza
I dont have to face anything. I dont care two bits what the Palistinians think of me nor the Israleis. I also dont care what ills my nationed is blamed for. What I do care about is money and secrets and right now Isreal is drianing Americas money and secerts. Gentleman both sides are terrorists one is just better equiped.
"Kill them all let God sort them out" Good riddance to the lot of them
There, but for the grace of God, goes John Bradford
My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.
I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation.
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