Some greek names are wrong ( I think)

**Tiberius Nero** · 03-06-2008, 18:07

ΑΡΧΗ= power, authority. The Athenian hegemony was refered to as an ΑΡΧΗ in the sense we would translate as "hegemony" or "empire". I actually think I have seen in an ancient source the Seleucid Kingdom being refered to as an ΑΡΧΗ, but no idea where that was now. So Arche Seleucia is fine I guess.

**abou** · 03-06-2008, 18:12

There was a huge amount of debate on how to title the Seleukid kingdom. It is an interesting thread, but currently located in the bowels of EBH.

It was felt that Arche best represented what it was - at least at the beginning.

**Teleklos Archelaou** · 03-06-2008, 18:44

I understand that you just want to help, but really, we have had many debates over these names and our naming conventions and how to be consistent but give the best name for each faction, etc. We did this years ago too. We are not going to change them now. We have discussed changing the Epeirote one about a year ago, but really after a long discussion felt it was better as it was. I can ***assure*** you that they will not change at this stage. It simply won't happen. We gave many options for this Seleukid one, and I leaned towards Seleukidai in the start, but we found epigraphical evidence that the governance (and this is not a place, but a system of empire that was unified as this faction) was referred to as an Arche, and that is why we went that direction. We wanted the adjectival form instead of the genitive too. We simply don't have the interest or time to go over these things all again out here - it's like any other aspect of the mod - we are also not going to make the internal forum archives public. If there is enough interest, we might dig things out to explain it to the public, but we don't have the time to give full explanations of everything we have done (this is totally volunteer-driven guys, remember - and we always would rather be working on new things instead).

**Tellos Athenaios** · 03-06-2008, 19:23

I must insist, Teleklos: Seleukides I have not spent many hours validating the Attic Greek in the EU agains the TLG, my own dictionary & understanding, and Perseus only to see the same error again. /

Now I shall comment a little on Arche. It means quite a few things, but in context it is indeed the Rule or the Power of something/someone. Actually there is a case for Arche Seleukeias (abstracting from Seleukeia by taking it to refer to the entire empire, therefore translating into the 'Rule of Seleukeia' / 'Power of Seleukeia'); but the joy of languages in general and Greek in particular is that there is always another way of putting it. So a change is not yet required.

**keravnos** · 03-06-2008, 21:45

For those who want to know more on ancient greek, check my sig...

**lobf** · 03-06-2008, 21:47

I don't understand why there's so much hostility towards this guy. He's just trying to help, however ignorantly. You guys always have such a fit if someone asks you something you think you've already answered. Just take a pill.

**blacksnail** · 03-06-2008, 22:40

Originally Posted by lobf

I don't understand why there's so much hostility towards this guy. He's just trying to help, however ignorantly. You guys always have such a fit if someone asks you something you think you've already answered. Just take a pill.

Back in the wild old days threads like this were very often thinly disguised, heavily nationalistic screeds, so the "once bitten, twice shy" reaction on our part is understandable, if not necessarily the best thing. Also it is generally more productive to say "why is the Greek the way it is? I thought it would be different" than "your Greek is probably wrong, I'm just saying" - the former gets you an explanation and the latter gets the team on the defensive due to, again, the wild old days on this forum. This isn't always warranted but you have a different perspective on the matter when you've been on the receiving end of really bitter, ugly threads on the topic.

Georgivs Tsililivs Graecvs seems to be arguing in good faith with a legitimate interest in improving the mod which is exactly the right way to offer constructive criticism. I think the specific hot-button topic is what caused the ruffled feathers. It is very a good point to say we should have something addressing this issue in the FAQ, as this does come up every now and again. I'll activate the MAA signal and see about getting it into the FAQ.

**blitzkrieg80** · 03-06-2008, 22:49

Georgi, you have no counterargument then?

So, I am correct in my assumption that YOU think your language hasn't changed in 2000 years, eh? Or can we agree that language cannot be controlled? It should be a simple answer- you agree or you don't.

still waiting for some evidence and/or citation... as commented, constructive criticism is great, but speculation doesn't hold much weight. thus, i don't expect anyone to change their views on my recent statements

**lobf** · 03-06-2008, 22:57

Originally Posted by blacksnail

Back in the wild old days threads like this were very often thinly disguised, heavily nationalistic screeds, so the "once bitten, twice shy" reaction on our part is understandable, if not necessarily the best thing. Also it is generally more productive to say "why is the Greek the way it is? I thought it would be different" than "your Greek is probably wrong, I'm just saying" - the former gets you an explanation and the latter gets the team on the defensive due to, again, the wild old days on this forum. This isn't always warranted but you have a different perspective on the matter when you've been on the receiving end of really bitter, ugly threads on the topic.

Word, that's understandable. I just so often see hostility directed towards people who come in and try to help the mod constructively because you guys have heard it all before.

But this guy seems wrong anyways. So whatever.