questions on carthage.

[Centurio Nixalsverdrus]

@ Centurio: I am a little surprised and subsequently worried about your low number of missile units . Also, I think that under "hellenic style" you could replace the hoplitai with Liby-Phoenician infantry as they are equipped nearly the same and have similar stats. Under your Celto-Italic section I am again surprised by the complete lack of core African or Iberian troops, though I suspect this is because you are focusing on troops in those areas. I am impressed by the concept of having "4-6 neitos" in a single army. That sounds terribly deadly, probably capable of taking on just about anything near the Italian peninsula. What, BTW, do you mean by "celtic thureophoroi"? Which unit do you mean, since none of the celtic units that I know of are described as such (though the concept is definantly not in-applicable).

I'm sorry. "Celtic Thureophoroi" is what they look like, but they are indeed called "Keltohellenikoi Hoplitai".

I think 2 units of good archers are sufficient. In a full stack, I normally need every slot for the infantry and cavalry. I love heavy cavalry, and I love heavy infantry. I don't like everything that moves around like crazy! I think I'm a very lazy general.

[Watchman]

...and given that the oval thureos shield is an originally Celtic design, and used quite widely by their units, a whole lot of Celtic troops could perfectly legitimately be called "Celtic thureophoroi".

[chairman]

Ah! That makes sense. I don't I have had a chance to use them yet as I've only really played Rome and especially Carthage.

About the archers and slingers, I've found myself using gobs of them; some of my armies in Iberia had as many as 4 Numidian archers AND 4 Balearic slingers. Of course, then I transfered some of those forces to Northern Italy and had to deal with Rome's spammed stacks of Triarii and Pedites Extraodinarii. AGGGHHH!!! So I left the archers as garrison or let them take casualties for my other troops and replaced them with med/hvy infantry wherever I could find them. My Balearic slingers had the unfortunate tendancy to get caught too slow by the vanguard of enemy forces before they could pull behind my infantry, something my archers never had to deal with. I am constantly recruiting replacements in Bocchoris in groups of 4 or 6! Those Romani spammed elites can be annoying when they come turn after turn.

Chairman

[Eduorius]

Last time I post this

First Punic War – Africa

Under the control of the Greek mercenary Xanthippus. Armies like this one were raised against foreign invaders like the Romans.
12000 infantry (citizen phalanx and some mercenaries)
4000 cavalry
100 elephants

with EB units

1 General
Cavalry
2 units of Numidian cavalry
2 units of Sacred Band cavalry
2-3 units of elephants
Infantry
1 units of Misteret Izrahim Tsarim (Phoenician citizen phalanx)
3 units of Dorkim Lubaim-Ponnim Mesoarianim (Liby-Phoenician heavy infantry)
1 unit of mercenary (Lybian, Spanish, Gallic)

* The number of elephants is hard to estimate. It could be even 4 if you have the money to go for it.


Second Punic War – Italy

The army that Hannibal used for his campaign in Italy after recruiting some Gallic mercenaries in the north of Italy. A lot of soldiers from different nations.
10/ 12000 Africans (4000 light)
7/8000 Spania (4000 light)
10/15000 Celts
4000 Numidian cavalry
4000 Celtic heavy cavaly
2000 Spanish heavy cavalry

with EB units

1 General
Infantry
1 unit of Balearic light infantry
1 unit of Balearic slingers
1 unit of Iberian caetrati
1 unit of Iberian loricati scutari
2 units of Numidian skirmishers
2 unit of Gaesatae
3 units of Geroas
2 units of Aanatim Aloopim (Elite African pikemen)
1 unit of Dorkim Aloopim (Elite African swordsmen)
Cavalry
2 units of Numidian cavalry
2 units of Brhentin (Gallic noble cavalry)
1 unit of Iberi Lanceari


*Hannibal brought elephants, but many of them died and could only be used in Trebia. Also after Cannae, Hannibal recruited local Italian troops like Samnites and Bruttians. I chose the loricati scutari instead of the normal scutari to show that some of Hannibal’s soldiers use captured Roman weapons. The important to see here is that there were as many Gauls as Africans and that Hannibal had a lot of cavalry.


Second Punic War – Hispania

Based on the army of Hasdrubal Gisgo and Magon Barca at the battle of Ilipa
50/70000 infantry
4000 cavalry
32 elephants

with EB units

1 General
Cavalry
1 unit of Numidian cavalry
1 unit of Iberi cavalry (lanceari, cursi, equites caetrati)
2 units of elephants
Infantry
1 units of Misteret Izrahim Tsarim (Phoenician citizen phalanx)
1 units of Dorkim Lubaim-Ponnim Mesoarianim (Liby-Phoenician heavy infantry)
2 units of Aanatim Lubim (Lybian spearmen)
4 units of Aanatim Aloopim (Elite African pikemen)
4 units of Iberi infantry
1 unit of Balearic light infantry
1 unit of Balearic slingers
1 unit of Numidian skirmishers

[chairman]

Sorry, Edourius.

I'm kinda jealous since your lists look better than mine. Of course I'm using limited modern history books (still great though) while you must be using primary sources or the most accurate modern calculations of period armies. Guess that's what you get when you're in charge of the Historical Battles section of the mod. Did I mention that I was jealous?

Chairman

[Emperor Burakuku]

Also note that the carthaginian Sophets had no military duties (regarding realism). So I guess the Sophet must remain in your capital and not go on the battlefield himself. As for the armies I would stick to Edorius' version and I would repeat what Konny said: the armies of Carthago were the exact opposite of Rome's - composed of lots of different units but with a liby-phoenician (or lybian) core. Good luck with your campaign!

[QuintusSertorius]

There wasn't really a "standard" Carthaginian army, each one was different. One thing they often did was ensure troops weren't operating in their homelands - you try to avoid using Iberian troops in Spain where they could defect or mutiny, Numidian troops in Africa and so on.

If you were sticking to straight "realism" it might even be more appropriate to hire generals to lead your armies, rather than using family members. There were some Carthaginian noblemen who lead armies, but they weren't politicians usually. Instead politics and religion were paired.