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Thread: Unit experience

  1. #1

    Default Unit experience

    "Hello people. I have started my first EB campaign as Carthage and fought 3 major battles. Some of my units have managed to get 'experience bars' and others haven't. However, over the course of the 3 battles there is no rhyme or reason to suggest how a unit achieves an experience bar. It just seems so random.

    What factors/variables does the game take into account to compute for experience?

    Also I have merged fresh units to the depleted ones which understandably lowers the experience of the unit depending on the amount of new additions merged. Does this also impact on a units better armour and weapons icons?

    Gracias."
    "The secret of all victory lies in the organization of the non-obvious." - Marcus Aurelius

    "Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum"
    Sometimes I get this urge to conquer large parts of Europe.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Unit experience

    "Hello people. I have started my first EB campaign as Carthage and fought 3 major battles. Some of my units have managed to get 'experience bars' and others haven't. However, over the course of the 3 battles there is no rhyme or reason to suggest how a unit achieves an experience bar. It just seems so random.

    What factors/variables does the game take into account to compute for experience?

    Experience is given for kills. Kills in battle gives more than kills of routing enemies. I think it is calculated for each individual soldier, because a battle can cause negative experience, when the highly skilled soldiers are killed. The experience you see is therefore a median. I'm not 100% sure on this, but I can't explain the negative experience in any other way.

    The life expectancy of soldiers is often pretty low. The reason why it can still rise is probably that experienced soldiers have a lower probability to die because of their higher defense skill, and in addition will more likely kill their opponents on the field before they get a spear between the ribs due to the higher offense. Plus, by killing more quickly they can "save" their raw recruit comrades from having to engage another enemy soldier, and that heightens their own survival probability and lets them keep their own lower experience they gained. Would be cool if you could follow the career of individual soldiers, if only in the save game.

    The best way to train up units is to give them lots of lower level cannonfodder to train under battlefield conditions, for example let your elite heavy infantry kill many of those levy hoplites or something. Low death rate, high kill rate and experience.

    That would mean that when you retrain a unit, the new recruits are not all automatically trained to the highest level, but only to a level below the mean value, in order to keep the mean unchanged. On the other hand, maybe the higher skilled soldiers are "brought down" to the mean, and the newcomers brought up.




    Also I have merged fresh units to the depleted ones which understandably lowers the experience of the unit depending on the amount of new additions merged. Does this also impact on a units better armour and weapons icons?
    Good question. Maybe equipment bonuses are calculated for each individual too? Don't know.
    Last edited by Dubius Cato; 03-07-2008 at 20:51.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Unit experience

    "Thank you Dubious Cato. i hope someone else will be able to confirm what you said and would be able to answer teh query in relation to weapon and armour icons."
    "The secret of all victory lies in the organization of the non-obvious." - Marcus Aurelius

    "Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum"
    Sometimes I get this urge to conquer large parts of Europe.

  4. #4
    Incorruptible Forest Manager Member Tristuskhan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Unit experience

    Quote Originally Posted by PersianFire
    Also I have merged fresh units to the depleted ones which understandably lowers the experience of the unit depending on the amount of new additions merged.
    You can overcome this issue by merging the MOST experienced group in the depleted fresher recruits. Using veterans as the reserve to fill the gaps in your rookie's ranks makes the average quality of you lines rise, and is the best way to merge if you have a no-retraining homerule (as I do).
    "Les Cons ça ose tout, c'est même à ça qu'on les reconnait"

    Kentoc'h Mervel Eget Bezañ Saotret - Death feels better than stain, motto of the Breton People. Emgann!

  5. #5

    Default Re: Unit experience

    Quote Originally Posted by Tristuskhan
    You can overcome this issue by merging the MOST experienced group in the depleted fresher recruits. Using veterans as the reserve to fill the gaps in your rookie's ranks makes the average quality of you lines rise, and is the best way to merge if you have a no-retraining homerule (as I do).
    "Agreed with the above. Any notions on the unti armour and weapon upgrades? Do they get reduced also if the fresh units have no upgraded armour or weapons?"
    "The secret of all victory lies in the organization of the non-obvious." - Marcus Aurelius

    "Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum"
    Sometimes I get this urge to conquer large parts of Europe.

  6. #6
    Jesus Member lobf's Avatar
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    Default Re: Unit experience

    Someone tested this pretty extensively in some topic a while back if I remember correctly.

    Edit- nm, i think i was thinking of this. Still useful, though.
    Last edited by lobf; 03-07-2008 at 22:20.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Unit experience

    Quote Originally Posted by lobf
    Someone tested this pretty extensively in some topic a while back if I remember correctly.

    Edit- nm, i think i was thinking of this. Still useful, though.
    "Gracias, answers alot of questions. Other than the weapon or armour ones. I would presume now then that it will also affect it?"
    "The secret of all victory lies in the organization of the non-obvious." - Marcus Aurelius

    "Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum"
    Sometimes I get this urge to conquer large parts of Europe.

  8. #8
    Incorruptible Forest Manager Member Tristuskhan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Unit experience

    Quote Originally Posted by PersianFire
    "Gracias, answers alot of questions. Other than the weapon or armour ones. I would presume now then that it will also affect it?"

    As far as I know a unit with armour and weapon bonus merged with a basic one will always go down to basic equipment. It may show different at the moment you merge the two units but on next turn (maybe switching to another army and selecting back the merged unit's one is enough, I don't remember) the bonuses disapear.
    "Les Cons ça ose tout, c'est même à ça qu'on les reconnait"

    Kentoc'h Mervel Eget Bezañ Saotret - Death feels better than stain, motto of the Breton People. Emgann!

  9. #9
    Whatever Member konny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Unit experience

    In fact unit experince seems to be very much by random or granted for just beeing present on the battlefield, because I had several occasions in which units rose a level before the battle started, and also units that became more experinced even though they did not participate in the combat (for example when I had outnumbered the enemy dramaticly).

    Disclaimer: my posts are to be considered my private opinion and not offical statements by the EB Team

  10. #10

    Default Re: Unit experience

    here..

    Quote Originally Posted by EdwardL
    It has nothing to with the type of men you kill, its just a flat kill per men basis.

    general flow of experience gains:

    It's easiest to gain exp with ranged units as a good infanty / archer commander will obtain most of his kills with with those ranged units while sustaining miminal if not zero losses to the archer unit itself, thereby preserving the gained experience as there are few troops requiring retraining.

    second in this list is heavy cavalry. as i mentioned prior, total exp gain is based on kills per men basis so cavalry has 2 things going for it here:

    1) They are most often involved in flank charging operations so their decisive impact in battle usually means the rout of units therefore decreasing the chance that they will have to melee and lose men.

    2) They also have a speed advantage over infantry which means that they can aquire a ton of exp just from chasing routed units, or use the speed to cut their own losses.

    Medium-light cavalry come next on the list. they enjoy the same system of exp as heavy cavalry but often fall sub par to heavy cavalry, specifically when the charge fails to break units and they are forced to skirmish thereby inducing potentially heavy losses. they also can be susceptible to range fire. A good cavalry commander can make the best use of light and some medium cavalry's bonus to speed by preserving those ponies until the enemy army breaks as which point the fast moving speed mounts clean up. Its not uncommon to have fast speed mounts rack up 1000+ kills for a single unit just from routs if you know how to time chain routs.

    also as a general rule, cavalry will gain exp faster just on the simple basis that they tend to have less men per unit than infantry.


    last on the list comes your infantry -heavy infantry, then phalanxes then other infantry; medium, and light.. usually in that order. the problem here is that these are the units that form your lines, so naturally most of the time they are going to be the units that sustain the highest casualties. casualties mean retraining which means loss of gained exp. higher quality long pike phalanx units can offset that to a good degree as they can keep units off of them by repulsing them with their thrusts, but as with almost all phalanx units, their exp gain comes slower since they tend to be the largest units in the game (240 on huge). Phalanx can excel at exp gains in some situations such as being the sole unit to block up and entire enemy army on a bridge or narrow street (pending enemy composition).

    Infantry as a general rule suffer from exp gain due to their speed, which can make them vulnerable to cavalry but most importantly it detracts from their ability to pursue and kill routed units, which is where the potential bulk of exp gain can come from.

    If you are wanting to gain exp for melee infantry I recommend two methods but you'll have to baby 1 or 2 units at a time;

    1) for open battles, stretch your main infantry line until it is at least as long as your enemies. take the few units you want to level up and place them on either of the wings. now you'll want to have cavalry screen the flanks of those units against other cavalry. once your main line has their main line engaged, start wheeling those units around the rear of the immediate wings of their lines and charge their backside. disengage them and charge again if you have to. if you are charging light or medium infantry against the backside of heavy infantry, you'll want to make sure you kill the enemy general first so you can increase the chance of causing those units to route. what you are aiming to do here is force those units to route so you can pick up the surge of kills when they turn and try and run through your unit. rinse and repeat on down to the center of their line.

    2) city trap. place the units you want to level inside of a city that you know the enemy will attack. once the battle commences, allow them to get past the gate without resistance. if you are anticipating them to come with a full stack, and you'll need to make sure you have adequate phalanxes or heavy infantry. Now with those heavy infantry or phalanxes, place them in position to block off the end of a street closest to your town square. you may have to block off more than one street depending on the AI pathing. Once the enemy army is commited, and funneled entirely down one or two streets, start moving the unit(s) you want to level up to the opposite end of that street. Place them in position to collect any routing units. If the bulk of the enemy army is in shaking or wavering condition, and / or their general is dead, then send those units charging into their backside to instantly gain 1-2 chevrons

  11. #11
    Member Member quackingduck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Unit experience

    so would it be a good idea to just build your lighter infantry? cause they'd gain alot of exp fast. and with 4-6 more attack and defence they'd be about as strong as heavy infantry but would cost alot less. im kinda thinking about lustonians here cause they get very decent light/medium infantry.
    Thank you EB team

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