Commentaries on the forum

[Matinius Brutus]

I just read this topic:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=79193

I never thought it was so demanding of you guys, which is why I am even more grateful to you for the job you are doing. Although I understand your drive (the pure desire to see something you are doing right) I don't think I could have it in me to do something like that demanding even if I could.

I also found out many at the EB team feel irritated by some comments on the forum. It is selfish, I know, but this makes some of them leave the project, which doesn't help the mod to develop as well and quickly as it could. And that is what we want. I am not a historian, and my knowledge is pure amateurish, which is why I engulf every piece of info the game offers (including the forums), and I enjoy reading the discussions, because I can see a few points of view on the specific matter. But not when it is done by pure stubbornness. Like the threads about new factions. The team has explained more than once why certain factions won't get in the game, and there are still people insisting on them.Not to mention the "monthly" LS threads. The team is putting so much efforts into this and some people cannot be bothered to read the FAQ or the info in the forum?!
My point with the upper is: Guys we are enjoying those lads labor. If we cannot help them, let's at least let them know we appreciate their work. Not the opposite. Besides it is our common interest.

I don't want to start another thread like the one above, which was closed, so I wouldn't mind locking this one.
Good job! You have made countless hours much more exciting than thy would have been!

[Maeran]

Yes yes,

As much as I do love EB, and the historical detail involved. There is only a certain amount of adoration that I can stomach.

Hopefully the EB team know that they are appreciated. Hell, we care enough to hound this forum, and sometimes even contribute financially (if you haven't and you wouldn't mind giving a bit, please look at the stickied threads)

But there is only so much adoration you can get in before it reeks of sycophancy you realise.

[underthesun]

Oh, I love EB, but you realize that things don't improve without criticism and discussion. If you have something to say, say it, and then all parties involved can reach a better understanding and thus make EB better.

[Watchman]

Yeah, well, there's constructive criticism, and then there's just being asinine. Too much of the latter has a tendency to create enough of a hedgehog reflex for the former to have trouble getting through too.

Especially if the formulation is careless.

[underthesun]

Well yeah, there's of course the difference between "Hey, I really think that x should be y, and here are my reasons" and "OMFG WTF WHY IS IT LIKE THAT?!@@!!!!!!!1!!!1111"

[Watchman]

IMHO "X should be Y because..." is already a fairly abrasive formulation - it has a certain undertone of issuing a demand, you know ?

I'd personally go with something along the lines of "shouldn't" and similar enquiring and more neutral wordings.

Alas, it tends to be the shouting that's the most common.

[Teleklos Archelaou]

Agreed, and also referring to things you don't like in the mod as "this shit", "stupid", etc. tends to make folks not care about responding also, and if they do they tend to take a more negative or aggressive tone.

[Theodotos I]

I think we should all be mature and grown-up enough to express proper appreciation for the countless hours that the EB team has spent perfecting the digital build we now know as EB 1.0. They deserve our thanks, even if we may not agree with every last detail of their decisions. We must remember, if they had done nothing more than eliminate the Screeching Women, they would be worthy of our everlasting praise!

[d'Arthez]

People should not forget that EB members have spent a lot of time and effort on everything in the game. Chances are high that whatever "X that could be Y" has been discussed internally.

Most of the issues are highly complex, and don't have absolute and definitive answers.

People should not forget that team members are volunteers. They are not paid or anything, and of course are not 24/7 available for queries. Imagine that, EB team members having a life.

Politeness and patience are key.

P.S. I am not a team member ( in case the post gives the impression).

[Tiberius Nero]

IMHO "X should be Y because..." is already a fairly abrasive formulation - it has a certain undertone of issuing a demand, you know ?

I'd personally go with something along the lines of "shouldn't" and similar enquiring and more neutral wordings.

Alas, it tends to be the shouting that's the most common.

Indeed "X should be Y" seems abrasive, in English. Let us not forget that many people here don't speak English as fluently or that their knowledge of the language is restricted to the grammatical and vocab level. By this I mean that people who don't speak English very well have also no understanding of such nuances such as what constitues an abrasive phrase, if indeed it contains no swear words.

In my native language it would be considered over-polite to say "please" after the tiniest of requests, in English (in the UK at least) it is practically necessary. Also in my language saying something equivalent of 'In my humble opinion I think that it would be better if you X" is over-wordy and might be perceived by some as conveying uncertainty or timidity.

All I am saying is that it should be taken into account, when appropriate, that not all languages have the same modes of speech; people who don't speak a foreign language well tend to just translate whatever they would say in their own language in a situation, they don't actually think in a foreign language.

[Geoffrey S]

What I'd prefer to see is people leaving topics alone. I have seen some friendly queries shot down by 'fans' before a member has had the opportunity to respond - sure, someone should have read the FAQ, but that's no excuse to vent one's frustration. Everyone was a newbie, once. Not everyone masters English, either. Think something looks stupid? Ignore it. You don't score points by being one of a dozen in a shouting match against someone who'll regret poking his head in a hornet's nest.

When I became a member here, it was because I was impressed by the decent level of discussion - to be honest, were that time now I'm not so certain I would have done so.

[Watchman]

Fair enough, but even allowing for that the tone of far too many of such "criticisms" comes across as much too demanding and cocksure of its own position to be written off as a language problem, culture gap or coincidence.

This is the Internet, recall. Entry requirements amount to basic computer hardware and IT skills, and the anonymity does funny things to peoples' manners.

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

What I'd prefer to see is people leaving topics alone. I have seen some friendly queries shot down by 'fans' before a member has had the opportunity to respond - sure, someone should have read the FAQ, but that's no excuse to vent one's frustration. Everyone was a newbie, once. Not everyone masters English, either. Think something looks stupid? Ignore it. You don't score points by being one of a dozen in a shouting match against someone who'll regret poking his head in a hornet's nest.

I'll second that. Sometimes people have been scared off by angry responces before someone can even tell them why there are so many angry responces.

[Ludens]

What I'd prefer to see is people leaving topics alone. I have seen some friendly queries shot down by 'fans' before a member has had the opportunity to respond - sure, someone should have read the FAQ, but that's no excuse to vent one's frustration. Everyone was a newbie, once. Not everyone masters English, either. Think something looks stupid? Ignore it. You don't score points by being one of a dozen in a shouting match against someone who'll regret poking his head in a hornet's nest.

When I became a member here, it was because I was impressed by the decent level of discussion - to be honest, were that time now I'm not so certain I would have done so.

And I'll third that. If someone's unreasonable or uninformed, either don't respond or, if you really feel you have to, try to be as brief and factual as possible. Fighting fire with fire seldom does any good.