Who said Rome wasn't a challenge?

[Dayve]

LIARS!

It's 264BC and i'm playing by very strict rules, recommended to me by Disciple of Tacitus, apparently recommended to him by Konny, and bloody good ones they are too. I've conquered only Tarentum, Rhegion and Sagesta. I have my main legion consisting of 15 units, mostly infantry. Would be 20 units but i can't afford it. And i have a small legion of 8 units, half infantry, 1/4 skirmishers and 1/4 cavalry including the general.

I'm sat there, minding my own business. Taxes are all normal due to my own ironman rule, only am i allowed to set them to high for 1 year (4 turns) every 5 years (20 turns) AND only if it's an emergency, never very high, and once the year is up they have to go back down to normal, except newly conquered provinces who must be set to low for 5 years no matter the consequences or loyalty level.

So, as i was saying, i'm sat there minding my own business with 23 denari in my treasury and my two armies, getting ready to conquer another rebel city in the north, when i see a Cartheginian army having a bloody picnic outside ARPI! 2 units of elephants and lots of spear armed medium infantry, pillaging my countryside and eating my grain supplies! Well, not really, i was still allied to them, but the picnic was not authorized and my wealthy patrician faction leader with his legion DON'T TAKE KINDLY TO YOUR TYPES AROUND HERE! Another rule of mine... if an army is in my land, even if they are allied, it's a declaration of war and hostilities must begin. So, off he goes, marching south to end this sharrade. I have not fought the battle yet.

Then, in the north, the Aedui lay siege to Sagesta! Only my smaller and lightly equipped legion are in the area to defend it, and only 23 denari spare for the war effort, and i've already used my one year of high taxes building paved roads all over Italy, the very same paved roads my enemies used to march into my land!

This is an outrage. I'm going back in now to see what can be done. I shall keep you all updated!

[Ibrahim]

wawawawawawaaaaaaaaaa! I'm sorry for you.

try making peace with the Aedui, raise taxes to very high (F the rules), and if the Aedui fail to be won over, then send your patrician north, not on the carthaginians. the rest will fall in place-don't attack Carthago yet. when the Aedui are screwed over, then aim for Messana, with script on-that will make the war more "official"

[anubis88]

Well those rules aren't a challenge as i see it, they're suicide.... No wonder stuff like this happens to you if you handicap yourself so much

[Dayve]

wawawawawawaaaaaaaaaa! I'm sorry for you.

try making peace with the Aedui, raise taxes to very high (F the rules), and if the Aedui fail to be won over, then send your patrician north, not on the carthaginians. the rest will fall in place-don't attack Carthago yet. when the Aedui are screwed over, then aim for Messana, with script on-that will make the war more "official"

Too late, destroyed them both.

They're not suicide rules... There's no such thing as suicide rules as Rome, you're going to win the campaign right from the start. I'm only playing on H/M. My rules make it more difficult to steamroll due to the restrictions and make it possible for me to actually lose battles. When i have a family member that meets the requirements (consul or ex consul, or if i have none praetor or ex-praetor) then i can have a full stack army, the rest of the time i can have only a legion which is 10 units. It's awesome, makes it very interesting.

[The Celtic Viking]

I'm sure even Julii in vanilla RTW would've been pretty hard if you limited your own armies to one unit of peasants.

The Romani are really easy to win as.

[Sarkiss]

i like your tax policy, but my rule is VH whenever possible. not for the profit but to slow down bloody population growth. if it wasnt for that i'd definitely follow your rule.
what are your other house rules?

[Ibrahim]

both destroyed?! someone give him a triumphus and declare him Dictator perpetuus!!

[Disciple of Tacitus]

Too late, destroyed them both.

Good on you, Sir. I hope someone got a "good tactican" trait, at least. Your focus is correct. Economy, Economy, Economy. There is time yet to conquer the world.

[Dayve]

i like your tax policy, but my rule is VH whenever possible. not for the profit but to slow down bloody population growth. if it wasnt for that i'd definitely follow your rule.
what are your other house rules?

As i said, i got them all from Disciple of Tacitus, but modified them myself to my liking.

----------

General rules

*Taxes always normal, high in times of emergency for one year once every 5 years, low for 5 years in newly conquered provinces.

*Never retrain units, only merge.

*After conquering a new province, merge all units and then disband the left-over units from the merge into the city to replicate military colony/settlement. (Can be ignored if said army is likely to have to fight for its survival before reinforcements can arrive) =-this was one of my own-=

*Never siege a city for more than 2 turns, always attack on the third.

*Never do a naval invasion unless i have a large fleet capable of withstanding any attacks made on it during its voyage.

*Fight battles relative to the skill/experience level of its general. A general who has never seen battle with no command stars will line up his infantry and let them have a Greek-style pushing match, only the cavalry will perform tactical manouvres. More experienced generals can act and react accordingly.

*Use realistic armies - balanced mix of skirmishers, light, medium and heavy infantry with cavalry to support. No triarii stacks!

Senate ranks and their importance

Due to the fact that you don't always get new senate ranks sometimes for years and years after the old ones expire, once a family member has obtained a rank he can use it for the rest of his life until retirement age, unless of course he gets a replacement, then his rank expires and the new guy is used until he is finally replaced, etc. etc.

*Consul - Can lead a consular army (20 stack army). Can govern Rome or other major cities in the empire once military career has expired.

*Praetor - Can lead a legion (10 stack army), consular army in times of emergency and if no consul is available but must hand the army back over to a consul or the senate (fort outside Rome) once the crisis is over. Can govern Rome or other major cities after military career has expired.

Aedile - Can lead a legion if no praetor is available, but not consular armies.

Quaestor - Govern (or co-govern) important cities, can lead a cohors equitata (8-unit army) in times of emergency.

Tribune/Legate - Govern any city, lead a vexillation (5-unit force) if needed

--------------------------

Makes for a very interesting and challenging campaign i can tell ya.

[pezhetairoi]

Just raise more armies. XD Sure it's not too hard to support two fullstacks based on your economy. Or three small armies.

[Tarkus]

Interesting rules, Dayve...good luck!
Forward!!

[Dayve]

Just raise more armies. XD Sure it's not too hard to support two fullstacks based on your economy. Or three small armies.

Armies must be limited heavily. Due to the AI being dumb, i can destroy superior armies without much effort at all, even when outnumbered like 3, 4 or 5-1. I can only raise an army when one has been destroyed. The rule i'm working by right now is:

1 army (20 units) and 1 legion (10 units). That's already too much but i recruited the legion to stop myself from building everything in Italy and then having nothing to build by the time it gets to 220BC.

Anyway, 1 army for each province, excluding Sicily and Sardinia/Corsica because those will never be invaded via sea. If no consul is available, 2 legions per province. So...

I'll be able to raise and keep a new army for each province.

Northern Italy, Spain, Greece, north Africa, Asia Minor, the Jewish place, Egypt and Gaul, and if i get this far... Britain. Of course i can support those armies with a couple of legions or equitata cohors (8-unit mop-up groups).

If i just recruit more armies i'm just going to ruin the game... I want to have problems, i want to have problems when i expand, i want a challenge, i want the game to feel even more realistic than it already does, i want to feel like certain family members have an actual importance, etc.

And i'm achieving that, and it makes the game a lot more enjoyable and challenging.

[Bacchus]

Nice how rules turn out to rule the game...

For those intrested:
taxrules in my campaign are as follows (offering a good balance in difficulty and gameplay. Game is on m/vh):
In spring and summer Very High is allowed but never so that public order is below 75%
In autumn and winter my settlements get cozy and population-growth is set to 1% if the circumstances aloow this.

It's not to complicated and difficult to remember for each turn(! - Alot happens during one turn in my game like role-playing the family members and generals).

[pezhetairoi]

@ Dayve

I don't spam armies either. I control Italia, Illyria, Balkans and Greece now and I only keep 4 armies active, two in Noricum, one in Illyria and one in Greece, including a reinforcement legion for each of them in their base city. It is such that locally, only one army holds the line, each one responsible for a fixed theatre. Only when the frontage lengthens to breaking point do I recruit another legion.

There are considerations of military prudence to take into account, no?

[Maximus Aurelius]

i like your tax policy, but my rule is VH whenever possible. not for the profit but to slow down bloody population growth. if it wasnt for that i'd definitely follow your rule.
what are your other house rules?

If you arent already using it ( im assuming your not ) I would recommend MAA's city mod. It really improves the realism!

[Ibn-Khaldun]

If you arent already using it ( im assuming your not ) I would recommend MAA's city mod. It really improves the realism!

What is MAA's city mod??

[Maximus Aurelius]

MarcusAureliusAntoninus's (MAA) city mod is a mod that can be found in the unofficial modding projects. It slows down population growth in cities and also limits their size (now only few cities can be huge).

[Tarkus]

1 army (20 units) and 1 legion (10 units). That's already too much but i recruited the legion to stop myself from building everything in Italy and then having nothing to build by the time it gets to 220BC.

Anyway, 1 army for each province, excluding Sicily and Sardinia/Corsica because those will never be invaded via sea. If no consul is available, 2 legions per province. So...

I'll be able to raise and keep a new army for each province.

Just so I'm reading this right: You raise two legions for each province in your posession?? So if you have 10 provinces under your control you will allow yourself to raise 20 legions?

This seems like a very large number of units on the strategic battlefield! Don't get me wrong -- it may very well be historically reasonable -- but I typically play with many fewer resources at my disposal during my own Roman campaign.

[Ibrahim]

well he only needs 1 legion per 2-5 provinces; I say that's cheaper

[Dayve]

Just so I'm reading this right: You raise two legions for each province in your posession?? So if you have 10 provinces under your control you will allow yourself to raise 20 legions?

This seems like a very large number of units on the strategic battlefield! Don't get me wrong -- it may very well be historically reasonable -- but I typically play with many fewer resources at my disposal during my own Roman campaign.

By province i mean... you know, Gaul is a province, Greece is a province, Africa is a province, Spain is a province. Maybe province is the wrong word i guess.

Once i conquer Gaul and Spain in their entirety i'll raise the number of legions and set a fixed frontier as historically was.

So, right now i have 1 consular army for the entire Italian peninsula, barring Bononia and Patavium which i haven't yet conquered but am about to do. I also have 1 legion (10-man army) stationed in Italy since my army is constantly fighting up in the north and the actual peninsula is left naked otherwise, and Carthage seem to have a thing for picnics outside Arpi, because they just sent a 2-star general there with another half a stack to pillage.

[blitzkrieg80]

I think he means historical provinces - like all Sicily, or all Cisalpine Gaul... rather than each subdivision/settlement as a province- because as you say, that is no challenge with the sheer number of small subdivisions and 2 legions

[edit] doh! he beat me to it

[Reno Melitensis]

Well I use rules very similar to those written down by Dayve. Military tribunes and Quaestors are only allowed military command against rebels. Praetors and Consuls are given the major commands. Due to the limited availability of Consuls, Proconsuls ( wright now I have 3) and elder family members which had occupied the Quaestor positions can command Consular armies. Each army must have 2 maniples each of Hastati, Principe, Triari, Hastati Samnitici, Equites Romani and Campanici, 3 velites and 1 Accensi. Pedites and Equites Extraordinari are only included for a consular army.

As I decided to play this campaign without historically reacting to events, I waited till I had a number of characters with the Senator trait to implement my rule. I decided to build a good economy, so from around 252 bc to circa 240 bc I disbanded one of my armies and invested heavily in my economy. Now I have at least 20 Senators, I see what I, as an elder senator can put forward to the senate to decide on. For example, after my intervention in the Gallic civil war on the side of the Arverni was over, I wrote down the names of the senators that could vote, my two proconsuls had the veto rule, so in case of a draw their vote counted x2. I had three options,

1-2 Attack Corsica, with the result of war against Carthage.
3-4 Attack Emporion,
5-6 Invade Dalmatia

I took a D6, ie a six sided dice and rolled for each senator, with the result being to invade Corsica in 218bc. Next I rolled again to decide between invading Iberian territory under Carthage or North Africa, the outcome being North Africa. I always do this in winter, so the elected magistrates can hold command.

Cheers.