whats up with the overly low cost of the byzantine professional soldiers, pronoai allegion can match, and sometimes beat the western european knights (which are more expensive) varangian guard are areguably the best heavy infantry, byzantine infantry cream dismounted knights, and ive seen kataphraktoi beat up lancers, uphill, with equal valor and upgrades, while the byz are my favorite its kinda unfair to have already overpowered units so cheap!
Pronoiai Allagion cost exactly the same as Feudal Knights, and have the same stats, but has a smaller chargebonus but slightly better armour (1 point), I think there is a morale disparity as well, but since the assembly is down I can't remember.
Varangians are actually very well priced for their effectiveness, some would say overpriced as certain swordunits can defeat them in equal florin matchups (V2 AUM has a slight advantage over V0 Varangians).
Kats. can simply not beat Lancers unless flanking or fighting downhill with a good commander while the Lancers has a bad commander.
The Lancers' stats are just that much better. But of course it is all a game off chances and the kats can have been seriously lucky, but just do a series of tests between the two.
Byzantine Infantry are brittle, they are weak on morale, but that can be seen to, so they are actually the powerhouse of the Byzantines. But what else do they have that can do enough for them? Remember they have nothing else but this, not like Westerners that has several levels of troops.
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BTW, Danish Crusades are true to history.
You may not care about war, but war cares about you!
You may not care about war, but war cares about you!
Quote Originally posted by Kraxis:
Pronoiai Allagion cost exactly the same as Feudal Knights, and have the same stats, but has a smaller chargebonus but slightly better armour (1 point), I think there is a morale disparity as well, but since the assembly is down I can't remember.
Varangians are actually very well priced for their effectiveness, some would say overpriced as certain swordunits can defeat them in equal florin matchups (V2 AUM has a slight advantage over V0 Varangians).
Kats. can simply not beat Lancers unless flanking or fighting downhill with a good commander while the Lancers has a bad commander.
The Lancers' stats are just that much better. But of course it is all a game off chances and the kats can have been seriously lucky, but just do a series of tests between the two.
Byzantine Infantry are brittle, they are weak on morale, but that can be seen to, so they are actually the powerhouse of the Byzantines. But what else do they have that can do enough for them? Remember they have nothing else but this, not like Westerners that has several levels of troops.
[/QUOTE]
the kats and lancers charged at each other, when the lines met, the lancers killed over twice as many as they lost, but as the fight dragged on, the kats began to beat back the lancers, it took a long time though, as for the varangians, they rip through just about anything, its amazing what just 60 of them charging down a hill can do, they beat 3 units of dismounted chivalric knights, it was kinda funny...lol
How did these battle happen? In SP?
In SP everything can happen.
If you have not experienced these things more than a couple of times you need not to worry.
Trust me, if you do 5 fights with a unit of Lancers vs Kats. where you are the Kats and then 5 the other way, you will notice the Lancers will win every time. If not then something extremely lcuky happened, such as the Kats killing the other general with the charge.
The point is that Lancers and Kats have the same charge bonus, but the Lancers have a better attack, thus their charge is stronger.
Their stats are: Kats (8/3/5/7/4) (charge/attack/defence/armour/morale)
Lancers (8/5/7/9/8)
So in all aspects the Lancers outdo the Kats. There must have been another factor playing in there.
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BTW, Danish Crusades are true to history.
You may not care about war, but war cares about you!
You may not care about war, but war cares about you!
Lancer: Melee = 5, Defense = 7, Armour = 9, Charge = 8, morale = 8. Unit size = 40
Kataphractoi: Melee = 3, Defense = 5, Armour = 7, Charge = 8, morale = 4. Unit size = 40.
On equal upgrade, morale, valour, headon engagement, Lancer will beat Kat.
The reasons that your Kat do better are:
- AI is very poor in upgrading their unit.
- Morale and valour difference.
- General bonus.
- AI is just simply poor in tactical combat.
If you are in doubt, try custom battle. Have the same valour, weapon, armour upgrade for both sides and charge them at each other headon on flat map. I am sure that Lancer will beat Kat 9.5 out of 10.
[This message has been edited by pdoan8 (edited 10-08-2002).]
Nothing is ever equal in war. It's your job as a leader that it is far from equal for your enemy.
All men bleed and die the same, just make it more likely for your enemy to do more of it.
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There's no such thing as overkill, just ensured victory!
Roma Invicta- Rome The Eternal
There's no such thing as overkill, just ensured victory!
Varangian Guards take two turns to produce. While the Byz are taking those two turns to build that unit, a European faction could build two units.
So don't forget to take into account build times. Varangians are good, but they're not game breakers in single-player.
I'm disappointed to hear that Lancers can beat Kataphractoi. I have a soft spot for the Byz. (Read "Agent of Byzantium" by Harry Turtledove. It asks the question, what if Mohammed had picked up Christianity, become Saint Mouamet, the patron saint of change, and Islam never toppled the Persian Empire? In the book, a soldier with a knack for finding uses for inventions goes on a variety of missions. Also, the Swords of the Legion quartet was good. So was the Krispos trilogy. The quartet dealing with the pseudo-Byzantine/pseudo-Persian conflict and the invasion of the pseudo-Turks, though, give it a pass...)
Anyway, ARE the Kataphractoi and the Pros. Allagion the top cavalry for the Byz? What about late game?
They have no more than that.
Of course they have Byz cav.
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BTW, Danish Crusades are true to history.
You may not care about war, but war cares about you!
[This message has been edited by Kraxis (edited 10-08-2002).]
You may not care about war, but war cares about you!
Oohh, Harry Turtledove...
How quaint!
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Remember 11th september, 1973!!
Remember 11th september, 1973!!
There is a certain (but very historical) lack of significant late-game units for the byzantines, allthough the swiss-pikes bug gives them the opportunity to field those in the Late era.
Allthough I'd suggest that proper use of upgraded byz cav, pronoiai allagion and byz inf. negates most other "advanced" units.
You just have to adopt a really unique style of playing. and the same goes with the Turks.
CHIEF HISTORIAN
Yes, the brilliant Byzantine heirs and generals makes sure that the somewhat weaker units can stand up to the heavy Westerners in Late.
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BTW, Danish Crusades are true to history.
You may not care about war, but war cares about you!
You may not care about war, but war cares about you!
historically speaking, the byzantine style armour was not surpassed untill napoleans french curiassers who wore armour that could keep out musket balls, making them the heaviest cavalry for over the 1000 years the byzantine empire existed, im making a mod that makes Kataphrakoi the strongest cavalry, but also over three times more expensive, but i have a question, how many ranks of cavalry can support each other in melee?
none...
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BTW, Danish Crusades are true to history.
You may not care about war, but war cares about you!
You may not care about war, but war cares about you!
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