This whole maniple thing

[Moosemanmoo]

So I've finally gotten round to playing the age old ememies, and I must admit I'm actually liking it. I took Taras and Rhegion (as you do) fairly quickly and I am now preparing for my Po Valley campaign.

So anyhow I've been wondering, If I've got the cash for it, why bother with the maniple? I don't think I need Hastati, why shouldn't I just raise loads of Principes with back up triarii? Hastati and Principes do an almost identical job, but the latter do it better. It may hurt roleplay aspects, but for now I just want to kill things , does hastati offer any battlefield role Principes can't do better?

Anyhow, thoughts?

[Jurdagat]

I guess most of us do it for roleplaying reasons, since the romans historically used it.

At least I do, and I like some variety and divercety in my army. :)

Other that that, Prinicpes are probably better since they could afford better armor.

[Dayve]

Not really... to be fair, hastati are crap. They'll take big casualties against even the most basic warband or levy hoplitai, i just use them for historical accuracy. They're crap troops, they're there to tire out the enemy for the next line... that is their job. If you lose all your Hastati, just levy a few warbands from a subdued province and use them as front line fodder instead. The Romans did it extensively apparently, so why not?

Of course, if accuracy isn't your thing and you just want to kill stuff simply recruit armies of those Italian swordsmen with the round yellow shields, principes and triarii.

[Olimpian]

Neah,don't use hastati.They have weak armour and will suffer much higher casualties than principes,especially due to missile fire,while having the same role:killing the othe guys.So I advise you to just use principes as the main infantry-of-the-line with triarii as reserves.That is how I did it untill i got Marian reforms and replaced principes with cohorts.Having an extra half-stack of hastati follow my main legion everywhere to replenish the high losses wasn't doing it for me.

[Obelics]

in fact, they are really weak, the only advantage they have on principes is the lower upkeep. I think it could be nice for them to have something better than principes related to the fact they are younger, for example a little more letality, or a very good stamina trait, i dont know. Anyway they are good to keep a barrage to hold the enemy attack for a while.

[konny]

They have a higher defense skill.

[Dubius Cato]

They have a higher defense skill.

Which I would translate as a better reaction time, in general and especially when tired. Makes sense for younger men. But are there situations where defense skill counts more than armor?

[Watchman]

"When dealing with AP weapons" immediately springs to mind.

[General Appo]

I too only really use them for roleplaying. When I just want to kick some ass, I make a full stack of Pedites Extraordinarii (the yellow allies) and attack everything in sight. They´ll kill absolutely everything.
I used them to take the Po Valley, Illyria and most of Hellas, Africa and Spain´s east coast. I shipped them back to Italy to retrain every 5th turn, and that was it. I´d basically won the game.

[Moosemanmoo]

I reckon I'll use them as garrisson troops and I'll give those italic allies a go
ty for the replies

[CaesarAugustus]

I reckon I'll use them as garrisson troops and I'll give those italic allies a go
ty for the replies

You might as well use Leves/Velites as garrison troops, they have more troops per unit and i think a lower upkeep. I'm currently around the Marian reform time in my campaign and all I need is 1 unit of Velites to keep my Italian cities in line (green face mostly). As for Hastati, I keep them in just for historical accuracy, and they are, well, almost decent troops. I find them useful for running around the flanks of the enemy then showering them with pila. The Italic Allies I used as flankers and shock troops, but around 200 BC (which would be over one generation since the provinces were conquered) I stopped using them, figuring that they would be assimilated into Roman society by now.

[Tarkus]

I say ya gotta go historical...they were, after all, the youngest and most inexperienced of the front-line infantry...a hastati-free legion would smack of gamey-ness!

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