Keltic Cycles

[cmacq]

This thread is offered so that some people may understand that what is today called a Keltic Cycle, is a recent literary invention and not an ancient format. These cycles are composed of the synthesis of numerous stories, poems, and pseudo-histories related to a given topic. These cycles are by all means not direct translations of a text and are often highly elaborated on by their modern authors.

Now, then...

The Donn Cycle may have been taken from the Lebor Gabála/Lebor Gabála Érenn/Leabhar Gabhála Éireann in English The Book of the Taking; aka, The Book of Taking Erin's Isle/Erie/Ireland or The Book of the Conquests and also often commonly called 'The Book of Invasions?'

This Milesian character is Eber/Emer Donn mac Miles/Mil Espáine

When alive he was somewhat of a very bad dude, hence the name (Donn means the Dark One in English). I think there also was an old Hebridean story about Donn's pursuit of the Dannan/De'anna from Erie to the Isle of Mull? In one or both stories, after he was killed, I think he became the infamous Donn, king (god) of the dead? There are several additional short-stories just about the KIA Donn. Its been a long time since I've seen these stories, I'll have to check on them?

I've never seen this part of the Leabhar Gabh`ala called a cycle before? But, then again, there may be more to the story than I'm aware of. Maybe whomever connected all the sperate stories into a single thread? Thats how all the other so-called Cycles became Cycles to begin with. Again, maybe there's a knowing Erinite out there that could shed some more light?

I hope this helps...

[oudysseos]

That's 'Celtic' in English, not 'Keltic'.

[Tiberius Nero]

So are those old collections or have they been made into cycles by modern philologists for ease of reference?

[cmacq]

Kelt Cycles are modern constructs and not ancient devices. And, oudysseos the 'K' is there for a reason. I will not apply Lhuyd's usage here and as this was taken from the Greek, shall I use Κελτοί?

Ἀνερρίφθω κύβος

[The General]

To use 'Keltic' instead of 'Celtic' seems just a little funny when speaking (writing) in English, since 'Celtic' is the norm spelling of the word and follows the norm with which English words in general are spelled (using 'c' over 'k', unlike for example how words are written in Finnish, which uses 'k').

[Mouzafphaerre]

.
GAH! It just leads to confusion (Seltik ). K is better.
.

[Elmetiacos]

Oh dear, I fear I've re-opened a large can of worms. No matter, because it seems the worms had long since set off to seek their fortunes elsewhere. Or something.

cmaq: what bothers me most about these cycles isn't so much their putative existence (we don't know how large they are, or whether they are really cycles in the sense of the matter associated with the Tain Bo Cuailgne etc.) it's that the language used isn't Irish. It seems to be a weird mixture of Welsh with Irish. For instance, try and find any reference to this "Entata uiManawydan"... you can't? Not surprising - the name is gibberish. There is no Irish or Welsh Entata. The supposed patronymic makes no sense - Manawydan is a character from the Welsh Mabinogion; here's a quick reference to who he is from Wikipedia. There's no reference in the Mabinogion to a son or daughter called Entata and moreover "ui" is Irish, but it's the plural form of the familiar O we find in many surnames (the older form is Ua) and is only used collectively.

Similarly "Telam duaNam"... try searching for the name Telam; you'll only find it as a name in Azerbaijan, not in any Celtic source. What's "dua"? It's placed as if it's meant to be a patronymic prefix like Ua or Mac or Ni, but there's no such word. "Muirran ta Breahain" - who is that? What's "ta"? Tá is the 3rd person singular of the verb "to be" in Irish (and in some dialects the 1st and 2nd person also) but it makes little sense in a name and you can't have a median H in Irish or in Scots Gaelic orthography. "Breahain" looks like a mistake for "Breitheamh" the (later) original form of the anglicised "Brehon" - a subdivision of Irish Druids (probably) who acted as judges and lawyers.

An inscription on an "idol" of Andrasta? No such animal. Presumably this is supposed to be Andraste, said to have been invoked by Boudicca... what a shame whoever it was had to make stuff up, when you can click on actual quotation attributed to her by Dio Cassius

I'm afraid an elaborate hoax has been perpetrated at some stage.

[bovi]

Nothing has changed since this came up four days ago.

Guys, give it a rest already. We're debating it internally.