Thanks for that, was a very nice read.Originally Posted by Gaivs
Re: Roman Maniple vs Macedonian Phalanx
Thanks for that, was a very nice read.
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Re: Roman Maniple vs Macedonian Phalanx
I say Pyrrhos' evolved phallanx that he used to defeat the Romani at Asklo/Asculum.
You can't get better than maniples (samniti maniples at that) interjected with taxeis of phallangites.
Makedonian phallanx was just a solid block of phallangites. Pyrrhos changed that. Hadn't the Carthaginians come to the rescue of the Romani, when they invaded Sicily, things that we all take pretty much for granted might not have been quite as such.
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Re: Roman Maniple vs Macedonian Phalanx
When MP is fixed in EB 1.1... we can actually test it.
Re: Roman Maniple vs Macedonian Phalanx
In EB elite phalanxes seem to ignore their biggest supposed weakness, flank/rear attacks... Every now and then you get to face single formations that are attacked from all directions (both flanks and rear, at least), and who then just turn to face the enemy and the formation doesn't disintegrate and morale doesn't drop as it should...When MP is fixed in EB 1.1... we can actually test it.
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Re: Roman Maniple vs Macedonian Phalanx
Thanks for the read Gaivs,very interesting,and everyone for your sustained opinions.It seems many people see the great potential of the phalanx,and also its drawbacks and missuse.I always like to use "what if?"s when looking back on ancient warfare(although many say history and "what if?"s are not good friens),and this is one of them.Like WW2 or other such major events,the rise of the Roman Empire was one of the main moments in history,and I often think what a world dominated by a Greek Empire would have led to...
BTW,I find Pyrrhus' army composition(from Wikipedia) of 20.000 infantry(phalanx and others I suppose),3.000 cavalry,2000 archers,500 slingers and of course his elephats to be very similar to the proportions of what my armies look like.So could this be the ideal composition of an effective phalanx?
Last edited by Olimpian; 03-17-2008 at 14:11.
Re: Roman Maniple vs Macedonian Phalanx
How would this have worked? Wouldn't the Romans simply focus on the Samnite maniples and leave the phalanxes alone? If the Samnites broke, it would have been easy to flank the phalanxes. If the phalanx moved moved forward, it would have exposed its flank. If the phalanx tried to assist the samnites, it would also have also exposed its flank. I have trouble visualizing how phalanxes could have contributed to this.
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Re: Roman Maniple vs Macedonian Phalanx
you are right about the flank issues; Antiochos III did the same and paid for it at Magnesia
that said, push away the *cough* samniti? you heard of what the samniti did to the romani at the Caudine forks? It's more likely for the Samniti to push the romani away than vice-versa.
besides, the idea was to individualize the phalanxes; i.e every phalanx has it's own flankers, giving more flexibility.
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Re: Roman Maniple vs Macedonian Phalanx
...and more to the point, in the nigh-inevitable instance it gets "out of line" relative to the other sub-units it has flank-guards from the start.
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Re: Roman Maniple vs Macedonian Phalanx
I've been thinking about it it but does anyone know how they managed to form and keep cohesive long lines?
I would imagine it would involve some sort of visual system like each command group has a big flag or marker so the commanders could try and keep all the flags lined up or something. I doubt they waited until the guys on the right started getting stabbed in the sides to figure out whether they were in line or not.
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Re: Roman Maniple vs Macedonian Phalanx
They didn't, really, AFAIK. At Gaugamela the Persians got an entire cavalry squadron through a gap that had appeared in the disjointed phalanx line...
...and that one was on level ground. Heck, the Persians had even smoothed out any major bumps beforehand for their scythed chariots.
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