Netherworld Mafia [Concluded]

[Northnovas]

I think we can let TC live for now.
vote: Bananabob
Has been acting rather oddly and we need someone other than TC in spot 2.

I was going on that logic for a seconder but see it is a tie right now and I believe TC there is no rush.

Tally from #418

TC: 4 (Joe M, Kommodus, Andres, Woad)
Joe M: 4 (Sigurd, Drisos, EF, Rythmic)
Kommo: 1 (GH)
BananaB: 2 (factionheir, NN)
Rythmic: 1 (Omanes)

edit: tally

[Drisos]

Gah! Enough.

TinCow, post your night actions. Otherwise I'll switch my vote back to you.

This all just doesn't make sense. Revealing, but no details? That makes no sense. Mafia would know your identity anyway, best to give as much info to town as possible. And this claim about some townie that knows you.. then we say 'then why doesn't he come forward',and you change your claim into the townie having a special role as well..

it's just too hard to believe all this.

[pevergreen]

Vote: Joe Monks

Im about to go to bed, I'd rather not lynch someone i know to be pro town.

TC: 4 (Joe M, Kommodus, Andres, Woad)
Joe M: 5 (pevergreen, Sigurd, Drisos, EF, Rythmic)
Kommo: 1 (GH)
BananaB: 2 (factionheir, NN)
Rythmic: 1 (Omanes)

[Drisos]

'know'? what exactly are you claiming here?

btw, don't you have to unvote your previous vote first?

[naut]

Gah! Enough.

TinCow, post your night actions. Otherwise I'll switch my vote back to you.

This all just doesn't make sense. Revealing, but no details? That makes no sense. Mafia would know your identity anyway, best to give as much info to town as possible. And this claim about some townie that knows you.. then we say 'then why doesn't he come forward',and you change your claim into the townie having a special role as well..

it's just too hard to believe all this.

Seamus included the weird and wonderful roles of Crusaders in Capo, so is it that much of a stretch to think kami would add a couple roles in a Mafia game set in the depths of hell?

Second, he made no such claim, townie was used in much the same fashion as Mafioso would be used in Capo - to represent Lucas, Mades and Dons etc, ie all aspects of the anti-town.

[Hannibalbarc]

Odd - did you specify a reason that I've missed Rythmic? I do understand that you've withdrawn your vote, why you've done this could be scrutinised, but I don't understand why you voted for him in the first place. Andres is acting in his normal inquisitorial style - I haven't noticed anything too different about his behaviour.

Until a response is provided:

Vote: Rythmic

I still don't like Hannibalbarca and do consider him my second lynch choice. He hasn't actually said anything relating to my suspicions against him. He also seems to have entered a phase of lurking for some reason.

GH, well, I'm willing to withdraw what I said relating to him earlier on. He seems to be acting innocent enough, for him, at the moment.I usually edit almost everything I post. Sometimes it needs fine tuning, other times I add information and remove incorrect items. In that case, I think, although don't completely remember, fine tuning spelling/grammer and adding a bit more onto what I had to say.

Actually go look back a few pages.
And I wasn't lurking, I was sleeping, I live in a different time zone then most of you, because you all seem to have been busy in the night.

I don't see a valid reason to withold the identity of an innocent yet unimportant townie.

Hey, we are all important, scumy
I think Andres could be mafia, but I don't have to much on him yet, so for now I'll vote abstain, there seems to be a lot of confusion, just what the mafia wants, we had better catch those scums soon or it will be the end our town.

I guess I'm going to go by the word of Sigurd, if he's wrong then well, he's wrong.

Unvote: Abstain Vote: Joe Monks

Just because Sigurd seems innocent(which I think he is), doesn't mean we take him at his word, we did that when Prol died, and I don't think we made the best of choices.
Btw, when do we find out if all those that were murdered are innocent?

[TinCow]

Gah! Enough.

TinCow, post your night actions. Otherwise I'll switch my vote back to you.

This all just doesn't make sense. Revealing, but no details? That makes no sense. Mafia would know your identity anyway, best to give as much info to town as possible. And this claim about some townie that knows you.. then we say 'then why doesn't he come forward',and you change your claim into the townie having a special role as well..

it's just too hard to believe all this.

I've disclosed absolutely everything to a few select people who have contacted me since this morning's events began. My identity and night actions are now known to several people. There is no reason to give the information to the general public. If I am lying, those people will be able to nail me very easily.

[Hannibalbarc]

What happened to Seamus? He seams to be...Lurking.

[Drisos]

I've disclosed absolutely everything to a few select people who have contacted me since this morning's events began. My identity and night actions are now known to several people.

And what reason do we have to actually believe this?

There is no reason to give the information to the general public.

not? how about letting all pro-town people know what your actions/results and future possibilities are? I'm willing to believe that there are special roles,(more special then detectives/doctors) but I can't think of any reason you shouldn't give info to the public. If you're really innocent(which I still don't believe) the mafia know you're important pro-town already anyway. What reason could there be not to give more info?

I'm still in doubt.. same situation as in Capo with the lynching of CR, it's either powerful-pro-town or mafia.

ok, ok.. benefit of the doubt, etc.. I won't take the chance of voting pro-town then. I'll leave my vote on Joe Monks..

Edit: btw tally..

TC: 4 (Joe M, Kommodus, Andres, Woad)
Joe M: 4 (Sigurd, Drisos, EF, Rythmic)
BananaB: 2 (factionheir, NN)
Kommo: 1 (GH)
Rythmic: 1 (Omanes)

since I don't think pever's vote will be counted.

[Andres]

I've disclosed absolutely everything to a few select people who have contacted me since this morning's events began. My identity and night actions are now known to several people. There is no reason to give the information to the general public. If I am lying, those people will be able to nail me very easily.

At least one of them should be able to vouch for you

[Ferret]

And what reason do we have to actually believe this?



not? how about letting all pro-town people know what your actions/results and future possibilities are? I'm willing to believe that there are special roles,(more special then detectives/doctors) but I can't think of any reason you shouldn't give info to the public. If you're really innocent(which I still don't believe) the mafia know you're important pro-town already anyway. What reason could there be not to give more info?

he can't give info to the general public because that includes townies and mafioso. And how can he send it by PM if he doesn't know you are pro-town, you have not proved it, you could be in the mafia and are just making sure he is the right target.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Wow, this is what I get for waking up really late.

TinCow is fighting pretty hard to not get lynched, which has in the past been identified as mafia behavior and contrasts sharply with his "que sera sera" approach from Capo II. However, if he is Power town, as he suggests, then there's another reason for that.

I still think we're letting Kommodus off the hook too easily.

[BananaBob]

Unvote:Abstain Vote:Joe M

[Mouzafphaerre]

.
OOC:

{

how many female Werewolves do you know?

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0210070/
}

Now, we have no evidence as to whether it's a female or disguised as a female.

Too much reading for a simple demon trying to make a peaceful living.

Vote: Abstain
.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Seamus included the weird and wonderful roles of Crusaders in Capo....

Cripes, I hope you're all smart enough not to trust that Seamus *******, poor fellow is probably not keeping up with his Lithium doses.


Analysis Points

TinCow:

THIS is a defense? Think about it folks. This is the fellow who successfully played double agent for days with GH and Andres on the other end. THIS is the best he could come up with? It strikes me as being so shoddy that it must be true -- my Rwandan witch-doctor had more substance. If TinC is using this thinly presented reed as a way to mask his mafo-status, he would have to have mega-big brass ones indeed. I'll give him the benefit of doubt.


Joe:

Not twigging my radar at all. I truly thought his post a mistake. Probably gets my vote in order to keep TinCow off the chopping block.


Andres:

Are you channeling a pitbull? You're hammering TinCow long after you didn't need to anymore.


Mak':

You're early posts are just a little "dumb blond" for a lass who is manifestly NOT a dumb-bunny. Your more recent posts read almost as though you're playing good cop to Andres' bad cop.


Sigurd:

You're return from the dead is both heartening and disquieting. There is more to it than I think we -- or quite possibly even you -- know.


my VOTE: Joe Monks



Voting Analysis:


People voting for people who were subsequently murdered/attacked:

1. Caius, Rabbit, Fahad, Ichigo, Mouza all voted for Sasaki. Though to be fair this was on D1.

2. Hannibal voted for Gibson

3. Drisos, Kommodus, North, Seamus, TinCow all voted for Fahad (attacked N3)

-- How reasonable is it to assume that a Doctor figured out it was vote count #2 on the list who was targeted with only 1 night of data? Doesn't quite jibe for me. If the Doc spotted Fahad, it was for some othe reason.

More later....

[Drisos]

New Tally:

Joe M: 6 (Sigurd, Drisos, EF, Rythmic, Seamus, BananaB)
TC: 4 (Joe M, Kommodus, Andres, Woad)
BananaB: 2 (factionheir, NN)
Kommo: 1 (GH)
Rythmic: 1 (Omanes)

How reasonable is it to assume that a Doctor figured out it was vote count #2 on the list who was targeted with only 1 night of data? Doesn't quite jibe for me. If the Doc spotted Fahad, it was for some othe reason.

ah, indeed. very good. so, either, it wasn't a doctor, or, the doctor had a good reason to protect fahad, and it was just coincedence that he was attacked as well the same turn.

he can't give info to the general public because that includes townies and mafioso.

Either rephrase that, or explain more. Because I don't understand one bit of it. He can't give info, because mafiosi will hear it? So what? Like I said, they already know he's powerful town already anyway..

And how can he send it by PM if he doesn't know you are pro-town, you have not proved it

Well then, if I'm so untrustworthy, let a detective investigate me, and after that have him send the info via PM. Otherwise I can't believe him, and I will probably vote for him.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

New Tally:
Joe M: 6 (Sigurd, Drisos, EF, Rythmic, Seamus, BananaB)
TC: 4 (Joe M, Kommodus, Andres, Woad)
BananaB: 2 (factionheir, NN)
Kommo: 1 (GH)
Rythmic: 1 (Omanes)

Drisos:

I show another vote for Joe from pevergreen and a vote for pevergreen from Sarathos as well.

Therefore, my tentative listing is:

Joe M: 7 (Sigurd, Drisos, EF, Rythmic, Seamus, BananaB, pever)
TC: 4 (Joe M, Kommodus, Andres, Woad)
BananaB: 2 (factionheir, NN)
Kommo: 1 (GH)
Rythmic: 1 (Omanes)
pever: 1 (sarathos)
abstain: 4 (hannibal, mak', mouz', Tinc')

No Vote: 7 (caius, CA, CR, Fahad, Ichigo, Horus*, Yaro*) * = likely WOG

Currently Dead: 11 (beefy, gibs, prole, sasaki, scott, shlin, totd, trat, tru, blade, luster)

Do you concur?

[gibsonsg91921]

Uh... gibsonsg91921 isn't dead. In our hearts...

EDIT: Apologies for the spam. I'm bored over here lol!

[woad&fangs]

Unvote: Tincow; Vote: BananaBob
Seamus makes a good point about the defense being so flimsy it has to be true. Also, I am curious what happens with 2 people in second place

tally:
Joe M: 7 (Sigurd, Drisos, EF, Rythmic, Seamus, BananaB, pever)
TC: 3 (Joe M, Kommodus, Andres, )
BananaB: 3 (factionheir, NN, Woad)
Kommo: 1 (GH)
Rythmic: 1 (Omanes)
pever: 1 (sarathos)
abstain: 4 (hannibal, mak', mouz', Tinc')

No Vote: 7 (caius, CA, CR, Fahad, Ichigo, Horus*, Yaro*) * = likely WOG

[Drisos]

I show another vote for Joe from pevergreen and a vote for pevergreen from Sarathos as well.

Pevergreen voted Joe Monks without unvoting his abstain. So I think it isn't going to be counted.

And, where do I find Sarathos' vote? I doublechecked, but I can't find one. Am I so blind?

Currently Dead: 11 (...)

we should name this 'Dead For Now: 11 (...)'

[Makanyane]

does NN's "vote" actually count? https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...&postcount=421

he quoted FH's and added himself to tally but that doesn't look like a valid vote to me....

as I now have neither any idea who to vote for - nor what tally really is I'm staying with abstain.

[Andres]

Seamus makes a good point about the defense being so flimsy it has to be true. Also, I am curious what happens with 2 people in second place

Well, Seamus made an absurd role claim once in Cosa Nuova II. It was so crazy that we didn't lynch him, because we didn't believe he would ever come up with such a weird role.

A couple of rounds later, he got lynched. After the game, it turned out that he was one of the mafiosi...

I for one don't buy the "TinCow's defense is so bad that it must be true"-argument.

It surprises me that Seamus of all players is using this argument to let TC off the hook.

Why exactly are we lynching Joe Monks?

Joe:

Not twigging my radar at all. I truly thought his post a mistake. Probably gets my vote in order to keep TinCow off the chopping block.

So, you're basically voting somebody who is innocent in your eyes?

What do you think about one of the other suspects, Kommodus?

[Kommodus]

*groan*... I'm suspicious of TinCow's defense as well. But I favor keeping him alive for one more round. I think that will be enough for us to determine his guilt or innocence, and it would be a shame to waste a pro-town role, so...

Unvote: TinCow

I don't think we should be wasting a lynch on Joe Monks. I think he's genuinely confused/inactive; we should all unvote him. Instead,

Vote: BananaBob

Not because I have anything concrete against him, but because at least there's a chance he's guilty. I don't like posts like this one:

Unvote:Abstain Vote:Joe M

I won't have anything concrete until I get home from work and have time to do a proper analysis, which I expect to be much later this evening.

EDIT: Tally

tally:
Joe M: 7 (Sigurd, Drisos, EF, Rythmic, Seamus, BananaB, pever)
TC: 2 (Joe M, Andres, )
BananaB: 4 (factionheir, NN, Woad,Kommodus)
Kommo: 1 (GH)
Rythmic: 1 (Omanes)
pever: 1 (sarathos)
abstain: 4 (hannibal, mak', mouz', Tinc')

No Vote: 7 (caius, CA, CR, Fahad, Ichigo, Horus*, Yaro*) * = likely WOG

[Drisos]

Good idea. I don't agree that it's impossible for Joe Monks to be mafia, but the chances are better for BananaBob. Besides, isn't there anyone around that visits the same forums as Joe Monks and can confirm his inactiveness? That will give us proof. I only visit Frontroom, Gameroom and Shogun Total War section these days. (well, almost only..)

and Andres, you're right it doesn't fit. But I agree with Kommodus, be patient. We don't want to lynch a strong pro-town role. Even if the chance is slim, we are not going to take it. Lynch someone else for now..

oh and concerning the Joe Monks vs. BananaBob tally:

Unvote: Joe Monks
Vote: BananaBob

Tincow's safe now anyway. Btw, should we keep enough votes on Joe Monks to let the '2nd amount of votes attack' be on him instead of TinCow? That would be nice. Though these double lynches aren't favourable, as long as we have no solid stuff like detective results. (Btw, do we want a doctor to protect Joe Monks? I say yes, we shall wait till we hear about his overall acitivity on the .org. Let's not kill too much townies, before we run out of them..) We can wait and make a judgement of TinCow later..

Edit:

Tally:
Joe M: 6 (Sigurd, EF, Rythmic, Seamus, BananaB, pever#)
BananaB: 5 (factionheir, NN, Woad,Kommodus, Drisos)
TC: 2 (Joe M, Andres)
Kommo: 1 (GH)
Rythmic: 1 (Omanes)
pever: 1 (sarathos)
abstain: 4 (hannibal, mak', mouz', Tinc')

No Vote: 7 (caius, CA, CR, Fahad, Ichigo, Horus*, Yaro*)

* = Likely WOG
# = Perhaps not to be counted

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Pevergreen voted Joe Monks without unvoting his abstain. So I think it isn't going to be counted.

And, where do I find Sarathos' vote? I doublechecked, but I can't find one. Am I so blind?

Post #363, about 2/3 of the way down towards his sig. Bolded and ever'thin'.

[BananaBob]

and Andres, you're right it doesn't fit. But I agree with Kommodus, be patient. We don't want to lynch a strong pro-town role. Even if the chance is slim, we are not going to take it. Lynch someone else for now..

Then you will not want to vote for me.

Why all of the suspicion on me suddenly? I can attribute my "strange behavior" to my noobishness and a general not knowing what was going on in the beginning. Either way I think you would be making a terrible mistake by lynching me. Their is chance I am guilty, sure, but I guarantee that their is a "chance" I have a pro town role as well.

[Andres]

Post #363, about 2/3 of the way down towards his sig. Bolded and ever'thin'.

Are we ignoring me?

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Are we ignoring me?

Well, at the time I hit "quote" on his post, I hadn't read yours.


I take your point, but...

My witch-doctor in CN2 was a false "reveal" with all sorts of details and interesting quirks. It worked on the principle of the "great lie" -- so big that it can't be unreal.

TinCow seems to be using minimalism -- offering nothing and no support -- just doesn't jibe with a "big lie" effort. That's why I'm skeptical. Is it a "reverse" big lie -- possibly -- but it seems too risky an effort and too quickly found out.

I have no doubt that he'll be the focus of study by "holmes" and our SamSpado Demons -- if he's dirty, we'll have a nice reveal and a necktie party then.

I picked Joe as a tool to not lynch Kommo, who is valuable if he's not trying to pull wool over everyone. Again, I'd like a little time there -- though I agree with you that unlimited time isn't appropriate either. We're over 400 posts now, so when he gets home from work we SHOULD start to see something.


Did you ever address my from earlier?

[Kommodus]

Either way I think you would be making a terrible mistake by lynching me. Their is chance I am guilty, sure, but I guarantee that their is a "chance" I have a pro town role as well.

Ok then, what's your role?

This defensiveness is a bit premature; I think Joe Monks is still ahead on votes...

[Drisos]

Damn, another strong pro-town role? How many of those do we have?... Give me a break..