Supremacy at sea (not for fun)

[Brasidas]

But You don't need a big fleet to supply your distant troops. So, the title of this subject is about SUPREMACY and how force players to keep big and very expensive navy.

Look at history, e.g. naval supremacy was key and pivotal factor during wars between Rome and Carthage.

Huge money penalty could support awkward and uncoordinated AI actions at sea.

So it will be your choice: suffer from economic blockade or engage in expensive warfare at sea.

[Parallel Pain]

supremacy is relative

if none of the other factions have ships, all you need to have spremacy is enough to prevent pirates from sinking you.

but if you are unlucky like me

[pezhetairoi]

problem is, blockading one port is not enough to hurt income unless you are an archipelago faction dependent completely on sea trade, or a faction on the brink of going into the red. factions are rarely rich enough to support multiple fleets to hurt more than one city at once. Even when I controlled all Europe with 5 Marian fullstacks and top-level mines, i could only afford to blockade all African Qarthadastim ports with one oneraria each. But to increase enemy faction income enough to build enough fleets to devote even one oneraria ship to each port would be overpowering them beyond, because, on the Vanilla engine at least, there's no guarantee the budget would be spent on naval matters.

My two cents.

[zooeyglass]

problem is, blockading one port is not enough to hurt income unless you are an archipelago faction dependent completely on sea trade, or a faction on the brink of going into the red. factions are rarely rich enough to support multiple fleets to hurt more than one city at once. Even when I controlled all Europe with 5 Marian fullstacks and top-level mines, i could only afford to blockade all African Qarthadastim ports with one oneraria each. But to increase enemy faction income enough to build enough fleets to devote even one oneraria ship to each port would be overpowering them beyond, because, on the Vanilla engine at least, there's no guarantee the budget would be spent on naval matters.

My two cents.

i found waiting and then building two fleets of 3 triremes each means you are never going to lose those fleets, and they can be retrained/roam the waters at will. in my mak campaign i have them, plus 1 large bireme fleet (4 units) plus at least a couple of oneraria fleets knocking around for transport from homeland to the fronts (italia/asia minor). but i think i went over the top with naval power - in theory i could split up my fleets and blockade every still ptolemaioi port if i wanted...

does anyone know how much a port city loses in terms of a blockade? would they lose up to 50% income? more? less? any idea how to calculate it?

[Dubius Cato]

You don't need a large navy against all enemies, but in my game I waged war against the Ptolies, and they had a sizable navy themselves. I had a fleet of one quinquireme and two triremes under a 5 star admiral with very nice retinue, and he could kill anything because the AI didn't bother to create a single large fleet to attack me. Maybe they just rebuild in a port I did not have under watch, and then sent their single fleets against me, I don't know. I also had three of four smaller ships to blockade Ptoly ports, but they had to flee when the AI sent their quin or tri fleets.

[Brasidas]

What do you think about decreasing value of pirate_spawn_value in decr_strat (which effects in increasing the spawn of rebels at sea)?

It could cause more blockades from pirate fleets and finally force players to support larger fleet, but from the other hand could be pain in ass for AI factions.

[Watchman]

No. Just no. Unless you want the seas literally teeming with pirate fleets that is.

[General Appo]

In my Sweboz campaign I actually had to use auto_win to get anywhere. Yes, had to! There were 6 fleets all with more then 5 ships in them roaming the Baltic Sea, and each of my ships costs a fortune plus the pirate ships are so much better I´d probably need 3 full stacks of ships just to take down a single one of the pirate fleets. I gave up and used auto_win after my 5th attempt to reach Gotland had failed, surely it can´t have been that hard?