Gun control is hitting what you shoot at

[Banquo's Ghost]

The quote from this article just tickled me enough to make it a thread title.

Anyway, it's an interesting opinion piece and mirrors some of my own thoughts and experiences.

Note: Frothing right-wingers need to note before reading that it is written for the communist euro-elitists of the BBC, so take some medication before sampling. It's full of bias and anecdotal appeals to emotion. It was even broadcast to the middle-class masses.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

America's 'safety catch'

By Justin Webb
BBC North America editor, Missouri

Despite the fact there are more than 200 million guns in circulation, there is a certain tranquility and civility about American life.

Deepwater, Missouri has a motto: "A great lil' town nestled in the heartland."

Deepwater considers itself to be an exemplar of the best of American life. A place where outsiders - if they ever penetrated this far - would find home-cooked apple pie and friendly, warm, hard-working folk.

Among those folk, I have no doubt, is Ronald Long.

Last month Mr Long decided to install a satellite television system in his Deepwater home. His efforts to make a hole in the outside wall came to nothing because Mr Long did not possess a drill.

But he did have a .22 calibre gun.

He fired two shots from the inside of the bedroom.

The second killed his wife who was standing outside.

He will face no charges. The police accept it was an accident.

To many foreigners - and to some Americans - the tolerance of guns in everyday American life is simply inexplicable.

As a New York Times columnist put it recently:

"The nation is saturated with violence. Thousands upon thousands of murders are committed each year. There are more than 200 million guns in circulation."

Someone suggested a few days ago that the Democrats' presidential candidates might like to take up the issue of gun control.

Forget about it.

They were warned off - in colourful style - by a fellow Democrat, the Governor of Montana, Brian Schweitzer.

"In Montana, we like our guns", he said.

"Most of us own two or three guns. 'Gun control' is hitting what you shoot at. So I'd be a little careful about blowing smoke up our skirts."

Democrats would like to win in the Mountain West this November. Enough said.

On the anniversary of the Virginia Tech shooting, all this will feel to some like a rather depressing, if predictable, American story. A story of an inability to get to grips with violence.

At the moment, there is an effort being made to overturn a ban on some types of weapon in Washington DC.

Among those dead against this plan - those who claim it would turn the nation's capital into the Wild West - is a lanky black man (he looks like a basketball player) called Anwan Glover.

Anwan peeled off articles of clothing for our cameras and revealed that he had been shot nine times.

One bullet is still lodged in an elbow.

His younger brother was shot and killed a few months ago.

Anwan was speaking to us in a back alley in north-east Washington. If you heard a gun shot in this neighbourhood you would not feel surprised.

'Gentler environment'

Why is it then that so many Americans - and foreigners who come here - feel that the place is so, well, safe?

A British man I met in Colorado recently told me he used to live in Kent but he moved to the American state of New Jersey and will not go home because it is, as he put it, "a gentler environment for bringing the kids up."

This is New Jersey. Home of the Sopranos.

Brits arriving in New York, hoping to avoid being slaughtered on day one of their shopping mission to Manhattan are, by day two, beginning to wonder what all the fuss was about. By day three they have had had the scales lifted from their eyes.

I have met incredulous British tourists who have been shocked to the core by the peacefulness of the place, the lack of the violent undercurrent so ubiquitous in British cities, even British market towns.

"It seems so nice here," they quaver.

Well, it is!

Ten or 20 years ago, it was a different story, but things have changed.

And this is Manhattan.

Wait till you get to London Texas, or Glasgow Montana, or Oxford Mississippi or Virgin Utah, for that matter, where every household is required by local ordinance to possess a gun.

Folks will have guns in all of these places and if you break into their homes they will probably kill you.

They will occasionally kill each other in anger or by mistake, but you never feel as unsafe as you can feel in south London.

It is a paradox. Along with the guns there is a tranquillity and civility about American life of which most British people can only dream.

What surprises the British tourists is that, in areas of the US that look and feel like suburban Britain, there is simply less crime and much less violent crime.

Doors are left unlocked, public telephones unbroken.

One reason - perhaps the overriding reason - is that there is no public drunkenness in polite America, simply none.

I have never seen a group of drunk young people in the entire six years I have lived here. I travel a lot and not always to the better parts of town.

It is an odd fact that a nation we associate - quite properly - with violence is also so serene, so unscarred by petty crime, so innocent of brawling.

Virginia Tech had the headlines in the last few days and reminded us of the violence for which the US is well known.

But most American lives were as peaceful on this anniversary as they are every day.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Hmmm, peace through fear of mutual destruction? Better rule of law.

Seems to me rising crime in this country has a lot to do with overcrowding and lack of offical visable policing; as well as things like bus conductors.

[rory_20_uk]

It's the economics of crime: odds of penalty, likely strength of penalty verses gain.

In the UK the odds of being caught aren't high, the penalty is soft with jails being pleasant enough and currently undergoing early releases as there are too few, so crime seems to have few cons.

Strong penalties (either from duration or severity) would reduce crime. I doubt that a bus conductor is going to sort out the worst of the problems on London buses: "don't do that" "or what" "erm... I'll fill out a form..."

Drunkenness? A scourge of the UK that politicians will not sort out as it is a vote looser, and after all it doesn't happen in the areas where they live...

As soon as I can get a job abroad I'm off.

[Tribesman]

Wow that Mr. Long was lucky .
That shot could have gone astray and hit the TV then all his effort would have been for nothing .

[KukriKhan]

Gun control is hitting what you shoot at

Other bumper-sticker phrases:
"Gun Control means using both hands"

"GUN CONTROL IS A TIGHT PATTERN ( ( (::) ) ) "

"I miss my ex-wife. But my aim is getting better all the time!"

"ONE MAN WITH A GUN CAN CONTROL 100 WITHOUT ONE." - LENIN

"2ND AMENDMENT: THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN POLITICIANS AND RULERS!"

"AN ARMED SOCIETY IS A POLITE SOCIETY!"

" ALL THE GUN CONTROL WE NEED WAS ENACTED IN 1791!"

"A GUN IN THE HAND IS BETTER THAN A COP ON THE PHONE."

"EYES OPEN, MOUTH SHUT, SAFETY OFF."

"FREE MEN DO NOT ASK PERMISSION TO BEAR ARMS."

"GOD CREATED MAN - COLONEL COLT MADE THEM EQUAL! "

and one of my personal favourites:

"FOUR BOXES KEEP US FREE: [1] SOAP [2] BALLOT [3] JURY [4] AMMO! "

[SwordsMaster]

It is funny, it's common in the US for people to say, "I don't drink", and consider 3-4 pints to be a problematic alcohol consumption. Here on the isles though, anyone who says they don't drink is treated with more suspicion than a convicted murderer. There must be something wrong with them if they don't drink.

This is on the theme of undercurrents of violence and civility, btw.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I've always been in favor of public drunkeness personally.

[Big King Sanctaphrax]

To be fair, if I had to drink American beer, I'd probably be teetotal as well.

[Ice]

To be fair, if I had to drink American beer, I'd probably be teetotal as well.

Tis is true.

Favorite beer I've ever had was the Dutch Heineken. I mean the real Heineken, brewed for the Netherlands, not that nasty crap they export to us here in the states.

Hmm, I think I'll start a thread for this!

[Crazed Rabbit]

Gun control is hitting what you shoot at

Darn straight.

Actually I was thinking of posting this article to show some Euros that America really is peaceful, despite their misconceptions.

CR

[Slyspy]

Guns don't smash up phone boxes, drunken kids smash up phone boxes!

[Big King Sanctaphrax]

Brits arriving in New York, hoping to avoid being slaughtered on day one of their shopping mission to Manhattan are, by day two, beginning to wonder what all the fuss was about. By day three they have had had the scales lifted from their eyes.

I think the writer is being a bit disingenuous here. Yes, Manhattan is no more violent than Central London-that doesn't mean you'd want to go wandering around any of New York's less salubrious neighbourhoods, any more than you'd want to walk around Brixton at night.

I can't help feeling that the author of this article has been rather selective in his sampling.

[Tribesman]

that doesn't mean you'd want to go wandering around any of New York's less salubrious neighbourhoods, any more than you'd want to walk around Brixton at night.

There is nothing wrong with Brixton thats a misconception , its a fine place .
Now if you want a comparrison on London/New York why not go for Peckham/Red Hook .

[ICantSpellDawg]

The quote from this article just tickled me enough to make it a thread title.

Anyway, it's an interesting opinion piece and mirrors some of my own thoughts and experiences.

Note: Frothing right-wingers need to note before reading that it is written for the communist euro-elitists of the BBC, so take some medication before sampling. It's full of bias and anecdotal appeals to emotion. It was even broadcast to the middle-class masses.

I don't know why you'd need to write about frothing right wingers - I agree with the writer. Why would we be offended, it supports our general view?

Do you mean to insult us because we believe that the BBC is a communist group of Euro-elitists? I read and listen to the BBC every day. Why would I do that if that is what I believed them to be?

You should go into business building sturdy straw men, you do such good work

Anywho - good article.

[JAG]

There is nothing wrong with Brixton thats a misconception , its a fine place .
Now if you want a comparrison on London/New York why not go for Peckham/Red Hook .

I wouldn't quite agree with that, My sister lived there for a few years and whenever I went, it was a lil bit scary - also around the Apollo after gigs it gets, er, interesting.

Anyway, one guys opinion on his experience in the US should be treated as such, but a lot of us who believe in gun control wouldn't think that just because there isn't gun control there is wild west style looting and pillaging - merely that society is not better off for having no gun control. I never have thought of the US as an unruly place anyway.

[ICantSpellDawg]

I never have thought of the US as an unruly place anyway.

If the U.S. is rather tranquil, then why would you suggest that your theory trumps our reality?

[Seamus Fermanagh]

...a lot of us who believe in gun control wouldn't think that just because there isn't gun control there is wild west style looting and pillaging....

And many of us pro-2nd ammendment yanks would LOVE to return to the crime rates per capita experienced by the "wild west." CR can provide you with the links, no doubt, but research suggests crime in the Old West -- wherein personal firearms were nearly ubiquitous -- was significantly LOWER than we experience now. Basing your assessment of that historical era on "Once Upon A Time In The West" or some such is even more off-base than trying to generalize from single anecdotal data points.

[ICantSpellDawg]

And many of us pro-2nd ammendment yanks would LOVE to return to the crime rates per capita experienced by the "wild west." CR can provide you with the links, no doubt, but research suggests crime in the Old West -- wherein personal firearms were nearly ubiquitous -- was significantly LOWER than we experience now. Basing your assessment of that historical era on "Once Upon A Time In The West" or some such is even more off-base than trying to generalize from single anecdotal data points.

check this out

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

25 years murder-free
in 'Gun Town USA'
Crime rate plummeted after law
required firearms for residents
Posted: April 19, 2007
1:52 pm Eastern

© 2008 WorldNetDaily.com




Kennesaw, Ga., City Hall

As the nation debates whether more guns or fewer can prevent tragedies like the Virginia Tech Massacre, a notable anniversary passed last month in a Georgia town that witnessed a dramatic plunge in crime and violence after mandating residents to own firearms.

In March 1982, 25 years ago, the small town of Kennesaw – responding to a handgun ban in Morton Grove, Ill. – unanimously passed an ordinance requiring each head of household to own and maintain a gun. Since then, despite dire predictions of "Wild West" showdowns and increased violence and accidents, not a single resident has been involved in a fatal shooting – as a victim, attacker or defender.

The crime rate initially plummeted for several years after the passage of the ordinance, with the 2005 per capita crime rate actually significantly lower than it was in 1981, the year before passage of the law.

Prior to enactment of the law, Kennesaw had a population of just 5,242 but a crime rate significantly higher (4,332 per 100,000) than the national average (3,899 per 100,000). The latest statistics available – for the year 2005 – show the rate at 2,027 per 100,000. Meanwhile, the population has skyrocketed to 28,189.

(Story continues below)

By comparison, the population of Morton Grove, the first city in Illinois to adopt a gun ban for anyone other than police officers, has actually dropped slightly and stands at 22,202, according to 2005 statistics. More significantly, perhaps, the city's crime rate increased by 15.7 percent immediately after the gun ban, even though the overall crime rate in Cook County rose only 3 percent. Today, by comparison, the township's crime rate stands at 2,268 per 100,000.

This was not what some predicted.

In a column titled "Gun Town USA," Art Buchwald suggested Kennesaw would soon become a place where routine disagreements between neighbors would be settled in shootouts. The Washington Post mocked Kennesaw as "the brave little city … soon to be pistol-packing capital of the world." Phil Donahue invited the mayor on his show.

Reuters, the European news service, today revisited the Kennesaw controversy following the Virginia Tech Massacre.

Police Lt. Craig Graydon said: "When the Kennesaw law was passed in 1982 there was a substantial drop in crime … and we have maintained a really low crime rate since then. We are sure it is one of the lowest (crime) towns in the metro area." Kennesaw is just north of Atlanta.

The Reuters story went on to report: "Since the Virginia Tech shootings, some conservative U.S. talk show hosts have rejected attempts to link the massacre to the availability of guns, arguing that had students been allowed to carry weapons on campus someone might have been able to shoot the killer."

Virginia Tech, like many of the nation's schools and college campuses, is a so-called "gun-free zone," which Second Amendment supporters say invites gun violence – especially from disturbed individuals seeking to kill as many victims as possible.

Cho Seung-Hui murdered 32 and wounded another 15 before turning his gun on himself.

[Tribesman]

I wouldn't quite agree with that, My sister lived there for a few years and whenever I went, it was a lil bit scary

It depends on what you are used to , it carries a reputation that it doesn't deserve , for the past 30+ years its been a case of OMG Btixton thats a really dangerous place...but it isn't .

also around the Apollo after gigs it gets, er, interesting.

BTW where is this Apollo you speak of ? Do you mean the Acadamy ?
If so then yes it can be interesting and them steps do give you slight advantage against riot police and police horses ..but not against the police dogs .

[Louis VI the Fat]

Do you mean to insult us because we believe that the BBC is a communist group of Euro-elitists? I read and listen to the BBC every day. Why would I do that if that is what I believed them to be?

Wakey, wakey, Tuff! That reassuring English voice...those costume dramas and great natural history programs - Britain's gift to America?

No!

*cue spooky music*
Auntie Beeb is a Trojan Horse, planning to conquer the US domestic media market and destroy from within. See how the BBC is systematically biased against Christianity and America.


Edit, just to be sure: irony and sarcasm.

[Adrian II]

Wakey, wakey, Tuff! That reassuring English voice...those costume dramas and great natural history programs - Britain's gift to America?

God, that makes me realise how much I miss Auntie. I mean the BBC World Service as it used to be before they went 'commercial' and began to produce crappy cooking programs and boring geo quizzes and put phat beats under their news readers who, by the way, more and more seem to echo Westminster.

Ah, the proud tones of Lullibulero, followed by Roy Lama's smooth parlando as he read the news. Funny business like Just a Minute and various musical quizzes. And great reporting from authoritative voices: Mark Tully reporting from India, Martin Sixsmith from Russia and Poland, the much lamented Alistair Cooke filing his Letter from America on Sunday night...

*lost in memory*

[ajaxfetish]

Hmmm, peace through fear of mutual destruction? Better rule of law.

How closely did you read the article? I'd consider fear and peace somewhat mutually exclusive. I've lived in the US since age 4, and believe it or not I don't fear for my life every day because my fellow citizens are allowed to own firearms. There may be a lot of gun crime in the country, but it's a really big country. I have yet to see or hear a shooting in person, and that includes two years spent in Long Beach, CA (home of Compton) and several years spent in other sizeable cities. Based on the news, you'd think every other person in America is an armed maniac and every other person in Austria keeps little girls in their basement. There's simply not enough of it to disturb the general tranquility, especially outside of cities (and some of our rural populations are among our most thoroughly armed).

Ajax

[JAG]

It depends on what you are used to , it carries a reputation that it doesn't deserve , for the past 30+ years its been a case of OMG Btixton thats a really dangerous place...but it isn't .

BTW where is this Apollo you speak of ? Do you mean the Acadamy ?
If so then yes it can be interesting and them steps do give you slight advantage against riot police and police horses ..but not against the police dogs .

Yeah my bad, I meant the Acadamy - seen a few metal bands there, pretty crazy - but still the best venue I have been to.

It does carry a reputation which is possibly over exaggerated and indeed it does depend on your previous experience - but it aint a nice happy place, it is pretty scary on many levels. Remember once getting out of the tube station and being offered drugs by 3 different interesting looking men within 20 paces.

If the U.S. is rather tranquil, then why would you suggest that your theory trumps our reality?

[Ironside]

And many of us pro-2nd ammendment yanks would LOVE to return to the crime rates per capita experienced by the "wild west." CR can provide you with the links, no doubt, but research suggests crime in the Old West -- wherein personal firearms were nearly ubiquitous -- was significantly LOWER than we experience now. Basing your assessment of that historical era on "Once Upon A Time In The West" or some such is even more off-base than trying to generalize from single anecdotal data points.

I'll rise with Chicago 1910-1930 (the gangster related murders were still in a considerble minority during that period).

Although I thought we have more or less settled the gun debates now? With the US being on another balance than Europe.

Only one war and low urban population during the "wild west" would certainly keep the numbers down.

[Vladimir]

Wakey, wakey, Tuff! That reassuring English voice...those costume dramas and great natural history programs - Britain's gift to America?

No!

*cue spooky music*
Auntie Beeb is a Trojan Horse, planning to conquer the US domestic media market and destroy from within. See how the BBC is systematically biased against Christianity and America.


Edit, just to be sure: irony and sarcasm.

Here in Americar I enjoy watching the BBCr's take on Barack Obamar's international policies. There's also a good show where some old ladies warsh and clean some poor buggerrr's filthy house. I love to hear them say dirty, r.

The boring thing is that I see the same damn comercialr for the RBS every break. Despite their constant, unrelenting talkr about the global food crisis they never tell me how it affects the price of rice in Chinar

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr...

And when did they allow the Irish to get jobs there?

[Big King Sanctaphrax]

There is nothing wrong with Brixton thats a misconception , its a fine place .
Now if you want a comparrison on London/New York why not go for Peckham/Red Hook .

Well, both times I've been to Brixton I was either almost the victim of a violent crime, or witnessed one. So my opinion of it isn't too high. I'm perfectly willing to believe that there are less pleasant areas in London that I haven't visited yet.

[Samurai Waki]

That made me proud to be a Montanan, my Hat is off to you Mr. Schweitzer

Anyway, yeah... we have like one of the lowest crime rates in the US, I think if you took all 40 Gun-Owners that live within a mile of my house you could probably arm somewhere around 250 people.

I myself personally own Three. I think thats a fair number. Assault...err...Hunting Rifle. Combat...errr...Hunting Shotgun... and a Handgun.

[Adrian II]

That made me proud to be a Montanan, my Hat is off to you Mr. Schweitzer

Anyway, yeah... we have like one of the lowest crime rates in the US, I think if you took all 40 Gun-Owners that live within a mile of my house you could probably arm somewhere around 250 people.

I myself personally own Three. I think thats a fair number. Assault...err...Hunting Rifle. Combat...errr...Hunting Shotgun... and a Handgun.

As in: low on hate crime? I mean, have you seen Gary Marbut or Randy Weaver lately?

[Vladimir]

That made me proud to be a Montanan, my Hat is off to you Mr. Schweitzer

Anyway, yeah... we have like one of the lowest crime rates in the US, I think if you took all 40 Gun-Owners that live within a mile of my house you could probably arm somewhere around 250 people.

I myself personally own Three. I think thats a fair number. Assault...err...Hunting Rifle. Combat...errr...Hunting Shotgun... and a Handgun.

Do you mean hunting rifle:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Shotgun:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

and Pistol:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[LittleGrizzly]

That pistol is beautiful in a sexy deadly kind of way.... I want it!