Understanding Christianity

[ICantSpellDawg]

And we do have Exodus 24:12


So I guess we have at least one instance where an almighty asserts to have written something (the ten commandments) with his own hand.

You make fine points, TuffStuff, and I disagree with none of that. Religions seem to require that I stop using these things I regard as assets in all other aspects (logic, free will, skepticism...) , because they are hinderances to getting closer to god.

I don't know why I am supposed to get closer than I am, while I'm living. Or why these seeming instincts I have - presumeably gifts from god - are supposed to get thrown away, or at least suspended?

Sometimes it seems that people fear being judged by Dworkian after death rather than God.
"You didn't use enough logic or reason in life" he would say.
"You really wasted your infinitesimal existence on faith"

Have faith and pursue goodness. Use whatever tools that the earth provides, but if those tools get in the way of truth, avoid them.

We do not want a thing because we reason; we find reasons for a thing because we want it. Mind invents logic for the whims of the will.

I think about that every time I put too much stock into what I understand about the world from a logical perspective. Then I think about what I was raised to believe. I'm much more worried about being judged by mom and God.

[Big_John]

I think about that every time I put too much stock into what I understand about the world from a logical perspective. Then I think about what I was raised to believe. I'm much more worried about being judged by mom and God.

that hegel quote is certainly cute, but it lacks much utility. you can't reject the rationality that ultimately underlies our world, our 'wants', unless you're a schizophrenic. whether we can tease out the logic behind our wants (though, increasingly, we can), is irrelevant to our existence in a physical world.

[ICantSpellDawg]

that hegel quote is certainly cute, but it lacks much utility. you can't reject the rationality that ultimately underlies our world, our 'wants', unless you're a schizophrenic. whether we can tease out the logic behind our wants (though, increasingly, we can), is irrelevant to our existence in a physical world.

That quote means to me that logic serves our interests, rather than the other way around. It is based on what WE know or believe to be true.

You may believe that there is some superlative logical understanding that everyone has, but I don't believe it. It is a way of showing ourselves a way to get what we want. Reality is relative as all of us frequently point out on this forum.

[KukriKhan]

That's almost buddhist there, TuffStuff:

Cease desire : attain enlightenment

Nice.

[ICantSpellDawg]

That's almost buddhist there, TuffStuff:

Cease desire : attain enlightenment

Nice.

yep. Find Jesus. Follow Buddha.

[Big_John]

That quote means to me that logic serves our interests, rather than the other way around. It is based on what WE know or believe to be true.

that's a superficial analysis. certainly we can create tertiary rationales that serve to help us acquire our desires. but there is a logic that motivates those desires in the first place. just as there is a logic that motivates a lion's desires, or an amoeba's, or a daffodil's.

You may believe that there is some superlative logical understanding that everyone has, but I don't believe it. It is a way of showing ourselves a way to get what we want. Reality is relative as all of us frequently point out on this forum.

simply, nonsense.

certainly there is a subjective aspect to 'reality' since we are phenomenal beings. but the probability that a consensual, objective reality exists must be nearly 100%, even if we can't access it without perception getting in the way. it's hardly important that you concede that point, the very fact that we are interacting illustrates it.

why would you even want to assume we live in a psychedelic, fantasy world? yellow submarine sucked.

[ICantSpellDawg]

that's a superficial analysis. certainly we can create tertiary rationales that serve to help us acquire our desires. but there is a logic that motivates those desires in the first place. just as there is a logic that motivates a lion's desires, or an amoeba's, or a daffodil's.

simply, nonsense.

certainly there is a subjective aspect to 'reality' since we are phenomenal beings. but the probability that a consensual, objective reality exists must be nearly 100%, even if we can't access it without perception getting in the way. it's hardly important that you concede that point, the very fact that we are interacting illustrates it.

why would you even want to assume we live in a psychedelic, fantasy world? yellow submarine sucked.

All of my analyses are superficial. Commenting on them is redundant.

I didn't say that we lived in a yellow submarine fantasy world.

Lions attack gazelles, gazelles probably think the lions foolish. Gazelles are probably saying to themselves "with all this grass to eat, why do the lions need to eat me? It's sooo illogical"

You may say that it is the "circle of life". Where is the logic in that?

Would you hold the same standard to homicide? "species arn't supposed to hunt their own - it isn't logical"

What would you base that on? We are a species and we do. We are the "top of the food chain" - some hunt people, others are hunted. We have gone to war with one another since history began writing itself. In this sense it is logical. If lions stopped hunting gazzelles, the gazzelle population would probably skyrocket. Maybe even from 6 billion to 6.6 billion in just 7 years...

Religion, by many accounts, contributes to charity and happiness. Lower suicide rates, higher donation rates. Maybe the logic is in the endgame.

Who knows. We don't really know why we do what we do. We come up with theories, but they just ask 2 new questions and barely answer the first. Rationalization is fun and it molds "reality" for us if we'd like it to.

[Big_John]

All of my analyses are superficial. Commenting on them is redundant.

increasingly..

Would you hold the same standard to homicide? "species arn't supposed to hunt their own - it isn't logical"

What would you base that on? We are a species and we do. We are the "top of the food chain" - some hunt people, others are hunted. We have gone to war with one another since history began writing itself. In this sense it is logical.

of course homicide serves a logical purpose. it wouldn't be so common otherwise. in broad terms, it serves to eliminate competition.

Religion, by many accounts, contributes to charity and happiness. Lower suicide rates, higher donation rates.

i've pointed that out many times before. btw, i'm happy to see you putting murder and religion in the same box. ;)

Maybe the logic is in the endgame.

Who knows. Rationalization is fun and it molds "reality" for us if we'd like it to.

only to a degree. but next time you sprout tentacles and walk on the surface of the sun, let me know so i can revise my understanding of reality's boundaries.

[ICantSpellDawg]

increasingly..
of course homicide serves a logical purpose. it wouldn't be so common otherwise. in broad terms, it serves to eliminate competition.
i've pointed that out many times before. btw, i'm happy to see you putting murder and religion in the same box. ;)
only to a degree. but next time you sprout tentacles and walk on the surface of the sun, let me know so i can revise my understanding of reality's boundaries.

So destroying competition through murder is logical? I wonder what else that undermines life we can agree on.