Pannonian 19:11 03-20-2008
Originally Posted by Mikeus Caesar:
I can only hope more countries follow suit, maybe even have a few major ones have a complete boycott.
Maybe then China will get the message that absorbing other countries into your country is not acceptable in this day and age.
The Chinese don't really think that way. They think that Tibet is an integral part of China, that took advantage of the weakness of late Qing to break away, was reintegrated, but wants to break away again. A comparison may be made with the confederacy, which was also forcibly reintegrated into the US.
Incongruous 21:10 03-20-2008
Uuuh, they are a different ethnicity, culture and country.
They were part o an Empire, not a nation. So I don't think there is a valid comparison there.
Pannonian 21:59 03-20-2008
Originally Posted by Bopa the Magyar:
Uuuh, they are a different ethnicity, culture and country.
They were part o an Empire, not a nation. So I don't think there is a valid comparison there.
The Republic of China claims authority over all of Qing China. So does the People's Republic. Both the mainland and the integrationists in Taiwan claim Tibet to be part of China, as defined by the borders at the turn of the 20th century. I think they've got used to the loss of Mongolia now (although their maps still read "Outer Mongolia", as in the province), but every Chinese map, whichever side of the civil conflict they fall on, includes Tibet and Xinjiang as part of China.
IMHO the Chinese should take up the Dalai Lama's offer to negotiate a semi-autonomous status for tibet, as even he says that independence is neither realistic nor desirable, and that all he asks for is cultural autonomy in return for Beijing's government in secular and civil affairs.
Marshal Murat 00:08 03-21-2008
The Dalai Lama is willing to negotiate, and he doesn't even want an independent Tibet. The Dalai Lama has always said that he wants a semi-autonomous or autonomous Tibet, one free from the social controls of China. The Chinese control everything, and have been importing Han and Hui Chinese, forcing Tibetans to conform to the Communist Atheist ideals. The Tibetan people are being attacked culturally and socially. They don't have a problem paying the taxes, they just don't want to lose their identity to the Chinese.
I think that the Chinese stubborn refusal to negotiate with the terrorist Dalai Lama has dug them into a hole. A hole that to get out, they would have to admit that they were wrong, and governments hate that. The Chinese can only try to play this as the law and order, which is understandable, but they can't really spin this effectively. It's disgusting how this is allowed to go on, but it's 'Made in China'.
DemonArchangel 02:43 03-21-2008
Originally Posted by Marshal Murat:
The Dalai Lama is willing to negotiate, and he doesn't even want an independent Tibet. The Dalai Lama has always said that he wants a semi-autonomous or autonomous Tibet, one free from the social controls of China. The Chinese control everything, and have been importing Han and Hui Chinese, forcing Tibetans to conform to the Communist Atheist ideals. The Tibetan people are being attacked culturally and socially. They don't have a problem paying the taxes, they just don't want to lose their identity to the Chinese.
I think that the Chinese stubborn refusal to negotiate with the terrorist Dalai Lama has dug them into a hole. A hole that to get out, they would have to admit that they were wrong, and governments hate that. The Chinese can only try to play this as the law and order, which is understandable, but they can't really spin this effectively. It's disgusting how this is allowed to go on, but it's 'Made in China'.
Unfortunately, the pissing contest in that section of the world is somewhat older than communism. Much, much, much older than communism, Mao, or anything like that. The Chinese have been at odds with the Tibetans in some shape or form since the 800s A.D.
As an additional note, there is also no such thing as "Han" or "Hui" because China is extremely complex in terms of ethnicity. Han is just a generic description of Chinese that don't know what they are, and Hui is just a Chinese Muslim.
Originally Posted by Bopa the Magyar:
Uuuh, they are a different ethnicity, culture and country.
True enough, but China contains many different distinct ethnicities, such as Mongols - indeed, more Mongols than Mongolia itself.
HoreTore 00:46 03-21-2008
Originally Posted by Bopa the Magyar:
Uuuh, they are a different ethnicity, culture and country.
They were part o an Empire, not a nation. So I don't think there is a valid comparison there.
What about the numerous states in Russia who wants to break away? They fit that description perfectly too.
Are we boycotting Russia too now?
Oh, might as well throw Spain in there as well... The Basques have their own culture, ethnicity and language, and they were absorbed by the spanish crown... Hey, what about Sameland in northern Norway, Sweden and Finland? Gotta boycott them(us) too. Hmm... Perhaps the native americans want their land back?
Incongruous 02:34 03-21-2008
Originally Posted by HoreTore:
What about the numerous states in Russia who wants to break away? They fit that description perfectly too.
Are we boycotting Russia too now?
Oh, might as well throw Spain in there as well... The Basques have their own culture, ethnicity and language, and they were absorbed by the spanish crown... Hey, what about Sameland in northern Norway, Sweden and Finland? Gotta boycott them(us) too. Hmm... Perhaps the native americans want their land back?
Does stormin'Norman need an axe aswell?
I was talking about the comparison made.
I mean, Tibet was originally it's own Kingdom. China was an Empire, not a nation state. Kosovo was never it's own kingdom, but it got freedom.
Quirinus 14:44 03-22-2008
Originally Posted by HoreTore:
Oh, might as well throw Spain in there as well... The Basques have their own culture, ethnicity and language, and they were absorbed by the spanish crown...
Uh..... don't they have self-government? Basque Country Autonomous Community?
Oleander Ardens 20:29 03-22-2008
Being a member of an minority which became part of another nation in rather or better very debatable fashion I sensitive about those issues. More so as I have met some very nice Tibetans on the Indian side of the Himalaya. But even an unbiased viewer must register that large nations have the unpleasent tendency to regard the often beneficial calls for autonomy as seperatism. By doing so they often get a rally for seperatism by the oppressed peoples. Then things tend to get bloody.
Boycott China '08! YEH! Hi five, Portugal!
HoreTore 09:02 03-23-2008
Originally Posted by Quirinus:
Uh..... don't they have self-government? Basque Country Autonomous Community?
Yeah. Call the ETA, they're not too happy about it.
Yes, I know that the Dalai Lama says he doesn't want a completely independent Tibet. He should say that to the organizations called "Free Tibet", etc...
Though I suppose that "Negotiate A Semi-Autonomous Tibet" isn't as catchy as "Free Tibet"...
Sarmatian 12:18 03-24-2008
Isn't this againt the entire idea and purpose of the Olympic games? I mean this is supposed to be something that connects people, that brings them together, regardless of politics and war... About people, not about goverment policies.
Geoffrey S 13:04 03-24-2008
Politics enter the matter as soon as a country claims the right to host such Games, as soon as it states that it is worthy to be host to a long tradition - as soon as it does so, people have a right to expect certain standards. Arguably, this is not the case in China.
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