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Thread: Shifting Sands

  1. #1
    Enlightened Despot Member Vladimir's Avatar
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    Default Shifting Sands

    Even if it's not entirely true it's one hell of a story:

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/mar/19/iraq1


    Reinvent the British and you get a global finance center, edible food and better service. Reinvent the French and you may just get more Germans.
    Quote Originally Posted by Evil_Maniac From Mars
    How do you motivate your employees? Waterboarding, of course.
    Ik hou van ferme grieten en dikke pinten
    Down with dried flowers!
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  2. #2
    Part-Time Polemic Senior Member ICantSpellDawg's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shifting Sands

    Great story.
    "That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there."
    -Eric "George Orwell" Blair

    "If the policy of the government, upon vital questions affecting the whole people, is to be irrevocably fixed by decisions of the Supreme Court...the people will have ceased to be their own rulers, having to that extent practically resigned the government into the hands of that eminent tribunal."
    (Lincoln's First Inaugural Address, 1861).
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  3. #3
    Lesbian Rebel Member Mikeus Caesar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shifting Sands

    Great story, and maybe something the US could take note of and use to their advantage - get Iraqis to love their country and fight for it against the scourge that is extremism. And then get the hell out once the nationalists are in charge.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ranika
    I'm being assailed by a mental midget of ironically epic proportions. Quick as frozen molasses, this one. Sharp as a melted marble. It's disturbing. I've had conversations with a braying mule with more coherence.


  4. #4
    Headless Senior Member Pannonian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shifting Sands

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikeus Caesar
    Great story, and maybe something the US could take note of and use to their advantage - get Iraqis to love their country and fight for it against the scourge that is extremism. And then get the hell out once the nationalists are in charge.
    I've said before that hatred of the American invaders is one of the assets that the US should use to their advantage. Anything that unites the country, even if it's against them, is better than the fragmentation that looks likely to happen.

  5. #5
    Hǫr­ar Member Viking's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shifting Sands

    Quote Originally Posted by Vladimir
    Even if it's not entirely true it's one hell of a story:

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/mar/19/iraq1
    Either way the moral of the story is: War corrupts people.
    Last edited by Viking; 03-21-2008 at 17:17.
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  6. #6
    Enlightened Despot Member Vladimir's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shifting Sands

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikeus Caesar
    Great story, and maybe something the US could take note of and use to their advantage - get Iraqis to love their country and fight for it against the scourge that is extremism. And then get the hell out once the nationalists are in charge.
    You see, that's it! Among some people there was a big controversy about bringing these kind of people into the fold. What they didn't realize is that it's not about what you're fighting against, but what your fighting for!

    This guy seems like a fairly honorable combatant. It's a shame his wife left him but I believe the article indicated that there is hope.


    Reinvent the British and you get a global finance center, edible food and better service. Reinvent the French and you may just get more Germans.
    Quote Originally Posted by Evil_Maniac From Mars
    How do you motivate your employees? Waterboarding, of course.
    Ik hou van ferme grieten en dikke pinten
    Down with dried flowers!
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



  7. #7
    Part-Time Polemic Senior Member ICantSpellDawg's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shifting Sands

    Quote Originally Posted by Vladimir
    You see, that's it! Among some people there was a big controversy about bringing these kind of people into the fold. What they didn't realize is that it's not about what you're fighting against, but what your fighting for!

    This guy seems like a fairly honorable combatant. It's a shame his wife left him but I believe the article indicated that there is hope.
    In this situation is is a good thing that his wife left him. She and her children are less likely to die and he can still fight. She said that she would come back when he stopped fighting.
    "That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there."
    -Eric "George Orwell" Blair

    "If the policy of the government, upon vital questions affecting the whole people, is to be irrevocably fixed by decisions of the Supreme Court...the people will have ceased to be their own rulers, having to that extent practically resigned the government into the hands of that eminent tribunal."
    (Lincoln's First Inaugural Address, 1861).
    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

  8. #8
    Enlightened Despot Member Vladimir's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shifting Sands

    Quote Originally Posted by TuffStuffMcGruff
    In this situation is is a good thing that his wife left him. She and her children are less likely to die and he can still fight. She said that she would come back when he stopped fighting.
    Maybe there was a subtext to her comments I missed.


    Reinvent the British and you get a global finance center, edible food and better service. Reinvent the French and you may just get more Germans.
    Quote Originally Posted by Evil_Maniac From Mars
    How do you motivate your employees? Waterboarding, of course.
    Ik hou van ferme grieten en dikke pinten
    Down with dried flowers!
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



  9. #9
    Part-Time Polemic Senior Member ICantSpellDawg's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shifting Sands

    Quote Originally Posted by Vladimir
    Maybe there was a subtext to her comments I missed.
    The final words of the story.

    "I met her in Damascus. We held hands and we cried. We have been in love since we were teenagers and we are still in love. I begged her to come back. She asked me what I would do if my commander wanted me to start fighting again. Would I fight?

    "When I said yes, she said she couldn't come back. But I will keep trying."


    It sounded like she only left because her husband was likely to get everyone killed. She asked him that same question right before she left.
    "That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there."
    -Eric "George Orwell" Blair

    "If the policy of the government, upon vital questions affecting the whole people, is to be irrevocably fixed by decisions of the Supreme Court...the people will have ceased to be their own rulers, having to that extent practically resigned the government into the hands of that eminent tribunal."
    (Lincoln's First Inaugural Address, 1861).
    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

  10. #10
    Enlightened Despot Member Vladimir's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shifting Sands

    Maybe I'll have to read it again but I believe he is currently fighting with US forces, not holding in an inactive status to fight against them.


    Reinvent the British and you get a global finance center, edible food and better service. Reinvent the French and you may just get more Germans.
    Quote Originally Posted by Evil_Maniac From Mars
    How do you motivate your employees? Waterboarding, of course.
    Ik hou van ferme grieten en dikke pinten
    Down with dried flowers!
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



  11. #11
    Part-Time Polemic Senior Member ICantSpellDawg's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shifting Sands

    Quote Originally Posted by Vladimir
    Maybe I'll have to read it again but I believe he is currently fighting with US forces, not holding in an inactive status to fight against them.
    Either way he is fighting. It is a damned if you do situation. If you fight the U.S. forces you will be killed and your family may be as well. If you fight against Al-Qaeda, you run a serious risk of having your family killed along with yourself.

    She just wants him to relax and stop fighting anyone, which is understandable from a wife and mothers point of view at the expense of the necessity of the situation.
    "That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there."
    -Eric "George Orwell" Blair

    "If the policy of the government, upon vital questions affecting the whole people, is to be irrevocably fixed by decisions of the Supreme Court...the people will have ceased to be their own rulers, having to that extent practically resigned the government into the hands of that eminent tribunal."
    (Lincoln's First Inaugural Address, 1861).
    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

  12. #12
    Enlightened Despot Member Vladimir's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shifting Sands

    No. He is fighting alongside US forces. His wife asked him what he would do if his (old) commander (the one he fought with against the US) asked him to fight.


    Reinvent the British and you get a global finance center, edible food and better service. Reinvent the French and you may just get more Germans.
    Quote Originally Posted by Evil_Maniac From Mars
    How do you motivate your employees? Waterboarding, of course.
    Ik hou van ferme grieten en dikke pinten
    Down with dried flowers!
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



  13. #13

    Default Re: Shifting Sands

    And the downside of the story ..... the powers are messing it up again , apparently some really clever bugger thought that it would be a really good idea to keep the groups together and active (but not active against the coilition) by not paying their wages , by reneging on the employment offers and basicly treating them like excrement . 4 of these units have left the deal entirely , 2 have already walked out on strike and 38 more are about to walk out .
    It seems they are complaining about being used and abandoned , thats the same gripe them fellas in Afganistan had back when it was the Russians not Al-qaida that was public enemy #1 .
    I wonder whatever happened to them fellas in Afghanistan ?

  14. #14
    Enlightened Despot Member Vladimir's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shifting Sands

    Speaking of Russians. That's also how the Russian army was treated and they're still around.

    What happened to them in Afghanistan? How do Florida oranges grow in New England?

    Walking out on strike? That actually sounds encouraging. Should be interesting to follow.
    Last edited by Vladimir; 03-21-2008 at 19:56.


    Reinvent the British and you get a global finance center, edible food and better service. Reinvent the French and you may just get more Germans.
    Quote Originally Posted by Evil_Maniac From Mars
    How do you motivate your employees? Waterboarding, of course.
    Ik hou van ferme grieten en dikke pinten
    Down with dried flowers!
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



  15. #15
    Part-Time Polemic Senior Member ICantSpellDawg's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shifting Sands

    You are right. I see that in the sentence right before the few I quoted.
    "That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there."
    -Eric "George Orwell" Blair

    "If the policy of the government, upon vital questions affecting the whole people, is to be irrevocably fixed by decisions of the Supreme Court...the people will have ceased to be their own rulers, having to that extent practically resigned the government into the hands of that eminent tribunal."
    (Lincoln's First Inaugural Address, 1861).
    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

  16. #16

    Default Re: Shifting Sands

    Walking out on strike? That actually sounds encouraging. Should be interesting to follow.
    Yeah it should be interesting , its not everyday you get a bunch of terrorists that you are paying to not be terrorists stopping work , I wonder if that means they become terrorists again

  17. #17
    Enlightened Despot Member Vladimir's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shifting Sands

    Quote Originally Posted by Tribesman
    Yeah it should be interesting , its not everyday you get a bunch of terrorists that you are paying to not be terrorists stopping work , I wonder if that means they become terrorists again

    So they're all terrorists now? If I would have said that you would have ripped me a new one. Maybe you're trying to trip me up.

    "On strike" implies an organized labor movement, and that's something which bodes well for Iraq. Since I don't know exactly what you're talking about I'll take your words literally and look for more, later.
    Last edited by Vladimir; 03-21-2008 at 20:47.


    Reinvent the British and you get a global finance center, edible food and better service. Reinvent the French and you may just get more Germans.
    Quote Originally Posted by Evil_Maniac From Mars
    How do you motivate your employees? Waterboarding, of course.
    Ik hou van ferme grieten en dikke pinten
    Down with dried flowers!
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



  18. #18

    Default Re: Shifting Sands

    "On strike" implies an organized labor movement, and that's something which bodes well for Iraq.
    An organised labour movement ?
    Yes I suppose armed gangs do sort of constitute a labour movement , and it sort of does bode well when they are getting paid to not go around killing people , but when they withdraw from their labour agreement to be nice friendly paid armed gangs that just means they are just armed gangs again doesn't it , which doesn't bode well .

    Since I don't know exactly what you're talking about I'll take your words literally and look for more, later.
    Well it was a big headline in the edition you linked to for your opening post soit shouldn't be that hard to look for .

  19. #19
    Enlightened Despot Member Vladimir's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shifting Sands

    Quote Originally Posted by Tribesman
    An organised labour movement ?
    Yes I suppose armed gangs do sort of constitute a labour movement , and it sort of does bode well when they are getting paid to not go around killing people , but when they withdraw from their labour agreement to be nice friendly paid armed gangs that just means they are just armed gangs again doesn't it , which doesn't bode well.
    The difference between them and the US labor movement is that we had semi and and not fully automatic weapons. Very violent times.

    Here it is. Oh wait, that was Paris, in the 60's.
    Last edited by Vladimir; 03-22-2008 at 14:31.


    Reinvent the British and you get a global finance center, edible food and better service. Reinvent the French and you may just get more Germans.
    Quote Originally Posted by Evil_Maniac From Mars
    How do you motivate your employees? Waterboarding, of course.
    Ik hou van ferme grieten en dikke pinten
    Down with dried flowers!
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



  20. #20

    Default Re: Shifting Sands

    Oh sorry Vlad , I didn't realise you would find it so difficult .
    Here go to the page you linked and follow these idiot proof instuctions
    Click on "news"(thats current events sort of thingies)
    Click on "world"(thats a roundish planet sort of thing that people live on)
    Click on "Iraq" (thats a country where some idiots got into a stupid war over a pile of )
    If you can manage to follow those really complicated instuctions you should be on a page that has 8 articles and 2 films on the Sunni councils
    Last edited by Banquo's Ghost; 03-22-2008 at 15:19.

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