Shifting Sands

[Vladimir]

Even if it's not entirely true it's one hell of a story:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/mar/19/iraq1

[ICantSpellDawg]

Great story.

[Mikeus Caesar]

Great story, and maybe something the US could take note of and use to their advantage - get Iraqis to love their country and fight for it against the scourge that is extremism. And then get the hell out once the nationalists are in charge.

[Pannonian]

Great story, and maybe something the US could take note of and use to their advantage - get Iraqis to love their country and fight for it against the scourge that is extremism. And then get the hell out once the nationalists are in charge.

I've said before that hatred of the American invaders is one of the assets that the US should use to their advantage. Anything that unites the country, even if it's against them, is better than the fragmentation that looks likely to happen.

[Viking]

Even if it's not entirely true it's one hell of a story:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/mar/19/iraq1

Either way the moral of the story is: War corrupts people.

[Vladimir]

Great story, and maybe something the US could take note of and use to their advantage - get Iraqis to love their country and fight for it against the scourge that is extremism. And then get the hell out once the nationalists are in charge.

You see, that's it! Among some people there was a big controversy about bringing these kind of people into the fold. What they didn't realize is that it's not about what you're fighting against, but what your fighting for!

This guy seems like a fairly honorable combatant. It's a shame his wife left him but I believe the article indicated that there is hope.

[ICantSpellDawg]

You see, that's it! Among some people there was a big controversy about bringing these kind of people into the fold. What they didn't realize is that it's not about what you're fighting against, but what your fighting for!

This guy seems like a fairly honorable combatant. It's a shame his wife left him but I believe the article indicated that there is hope.

In this situation is is a good thing that his wife left him. She and her children are less likely to die and he can still fight. She said that she would come back when he stopped fighting.

[Vladimir]

In this situation is is a good thing that his wife left him. She and her children are less likely to die and he can still fight. She said that she would come back when he stopped fighting.

Maybe there was a subtext to her comments I missed.

[ICantSpellDawg]

Maybe there was a subtext to her comments I missed.

The final words of the story.

"I met her in Damascus. We held hands and we cried. We have been in love since we were teenagers and we are still in love. I begged her to come back. She asked me what I would do if my commander wanted me to start fighting again. Would I fight?

"When I said yes, she said she couldn't come back. But I will keep trying."


It sounded like she only left because her husband was likely to get everyone killed. She asked him that same question right before she left.

[Vladimir]

Maybe I'll have to read it again but I believe he is currently fighting with US forces, not holding in an inactive status to fight against them.

[ICantSpellDawg]

Maybe I'll have to read it again but I believe he is currently fighting with US forces, not holding in an inactive status to fight against them.

Either way he is fighting. It is a damned if you do situation. If you fight the U.S. forces you will be killed and your family may be as well. If you fight against Al-Qaeda, you run a serious risk of having your family killed along with yourself.

She just wants him to relax and stop fighting anyone, which is understandable from a wife and mothers point of view at the expense of the necessity of the situation.

[Vladimir]

No. He is fighting alongside US forces. His wife asked him what he would do if his (old) commander (the one he fought with against the US) asked him to fight.

[Tribesman]

And the downside of the story ..... the powers are messing it up again , apparently some really clever bugger thought that it would be a really good idea to keep the groups together and active (but not active against the coilition) by not paying their wages , by reneging on the employment offers and basicly treating them like excrement . 4 of these units have left the deal entirely , 2 have already walked out on strike and 38 more are about to walk out .
It seems they are complaining about being used and abandoned , thats the same gripe them fellas in Afganistan had back when it was the Russians not Al-qaida that was public enemy #1 .
I wonder whatever happened to them fellas in Afghanistan ?

[Vladimir]

Speaking of Russians. That's also how the Russian army was treated and they're still around.

What happened to them in Afghanistan? How do Florida oranges grow in New England?

Walking out on strike? That actually sounds encouraging. Should be interesting to follow.

[ICantSpellDawg]

You are right. I see that in the sentence right before the few I quoted.

[Tribesman]

Walking out on strike? That actually sounds encouraging. Should be interesting to follow.

Yeah it should be interesting , its not everyday you get a bunch of terrorists that you are paying to not be terrorists stopping work , I wonder if that means they become terrorists again

[Vladimir]

Yeah it should be interesting , its not everyday you get a bunch of terrorists that you are paying to not be terrorists stopping work , I wonder if that means they become terrorists again

So they're all terrorists now? If I would have said that you would have ripped me a new one. Maybe you're trying to trip me up.

"On strike" implies an organized labor movement, and that's something which bodes well for Iraq. Since I don't know exactly what you're talking about I'll take your words literally and look for more, later.

[Tribesman]

"On strike" implies an organized labor movement, and that's something which bodes well for Iraq.

An organised labour movement ?
Yes I suppose armed gangs do sort of constitute a labour movement , and it sort of does bode well when they are getting paid to not go around killing people , but when they withdraw from their labour agreement to be nice friendly paid armed gangs that just means they are just armed gangs again doesn't it , which doesn't bode well .

Since I don't know exactly what you're talking about I'll take your words literally and look for more, later.

Well it was a big headline in the edition you linked to for your opening post soit shouldn't be that hard to look for .

[Vladimir]

An organised labour movement ?
Yes I suppose armed gangs do sort of constitute a labour movement , and it sort of does bode well when they are getting paid to not go around killing people , but when they withdraw from their labour agreement to be nice friendly paid armed gangs that just means they are just armed gangs again doesn't it , which doesn't bode well.

The difference between them and the US labor movement is that we had semi and and not fully automatic weapons. Very violent times.

Here it is. Oh wait, that was Paris, in the 60's.

[Tribesman]

Oh sorry Vlad , I didn't realise you would find it so difficult .
Here go to the page you linked and follow these idiot proof instuctions
Click on "news"(thats current events sort of thingies)
Click on "world"(thats a roundish planet sort of thing that people live on)
Click on "Iraq" (thats a country where some idiots got into a stupid war over a pile of )
If you can manage to follow those really complicated instuctions you should be on a page that has 8 articles and 2 films on the Sunni councils