Gladiator matches among Hellenes?

**Kongeslask** · 03-26-2008, 14:22

I read The Cambridge history of Greek and Roman warfare recently, and it claimed that though gladiatorial matches were a Roman invention, it quickly spread throughout the Eastern Mediterranean even before the Romans conquered these terriotories, and that the matches were very popular throughout the Hellenic East.

If this is true, it could justify giving hellenic factions access to arenas, as an extra happiness-giving structure. What is the EB stance on the subject?

**Tellos Athenaios** · 03-26-2008, 18:23

I shall not give my comments regarding the history side of the story; mainly because I'd be stepping on the toes far more able than me. (Suffice to say I have my doubts about the historical merits of arean inclusion...)

Rather I shall proceed from a different angle:
First in what sense is a Gladiatorial match different from regular fighting sports hosted at all major games; daily witnessed at the gymnaseia? This: the fact it's performed by prisoners i.e.: it's a (death) penalty. People who fight a Gladitorial match have effectively been sentenced to death, to die in a rather brutal fashion to the joys of the crowd.

If anything it would have to file under 'law & order' considering that the happiness part is already there in the gymnaseia etc.

Secondly there's the thechnical issue of limited building complexes & the fact the *real* gameplay bonuses have already been assigned to other building slots (so I doubt the engine can make out the difference between two buildings offering the exact same player-controllable boni/mali): the Romani get Arena's but don't get Theatron's; the Romani get Races but don't get Panhellenic fesitvities...

**Long lost Caesar** · 03-26-2008, 19:38

I don't think the Hellenes had to-the-death fighters, but im pretty sure they enjoyed watching warriors spar off against each other and wrestle. A lot. For reasons we all know

**Philippus Flavius Homovallumus** · 03-26-2008, 21:46

Um, Tellos, the majoriety of Gladiatorial combats were non-lethal and many Gladiators were actually highly trained (and valuable) slaves or even proffesional free men.

**antisocialmunky** · 03-26-2008, 23:25

If you're refering to to-the-death sorts of thing, then several different cultures developed funeral games.

**keravnos** · 03-27-2008, 07:55

Originally Posted by Long lost Caesar

I don't think the Hellenes had to-the-death fighters, but im pretty sure they enjoyed watching warriors spar off against each other and wrestle. A lot. For reasons we all know

Same reasons people watch WWF nowadays maybe..?

**Apgad** · 03-27-2008, 09:52

Originally Posted by keravnos

Same reasons people watch WWF nowadays maybe..?

I think that maybe he was referring to the same kind of muscly, tanned, oiled, writhing men . . . but naked. A narrow, but subtle, difference.

**Watchman** · 03-27-2008, 11:52

One brought about chiefly by the rather hypocritical American prudishness over nudity, I daresay...

**Ibrahim** · 03-27-2008, 16:16

back to the gladiators:
it's worth opinting out that Gladiatorial matches weren't necessarily to the death...mostly, at least for the professional gladiators.

**Tellos Athenaios** · 03-27-2008, 18:32

Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla

Um, Tellos, the majoriety of Gladiatorial combats were non-lethal and many Gladiators were actually highly trained (and valuable) slaves or even proffesional free men.

See, that's why I'd rather not comment on the history.

(I thought the entire tradition originated bascially from an elaborate death sentence...)

Anyways 'to-the-death-fights' were, while not intended per se as such, common enough in the Hellenic/Hellenistic world too. (Pankration, anybody?) But as saidt those file under the 'Games' 'tech-tree'.

**Ibrahim** · 03-27-2008, 18:35

Gladiatorial matches were origionally a kind of funerary right held by the Etruscans or some Italic people (romans apparently didn't invent it)-it only became a form of entertainment later on

**Maeran** · 03-27-2008, 19:50

Yes, it was the Etruscans who introduced gladiatorial funeral games to the Romans. And to come full circle (but only speculatively) perhaps the Etruscans, who were influenced by the Greeks in other matters, may have got the idea of funeral games from the Hellenes. After all, there are more conventional games in the Illiad.