Unit Conscription : Corsica and Sardinia

[Barry Soteiro]

I'm happy to see some infantry for the nuraghi in EB 1.1. Will next version feature some cavalry ?

[dedalonur9]

I'm happy to see some infantry for the nuraghi in EB 1.1. Will next version feature some cavalry ?

I hope. From Askos is gone, from the Sardinian traditions like l' Ardia, and from a bronzetto, turns out that the Sardinians went to horse. in the bronzetti also a chariot-war is represented.

I have seen the for the first time; "Shardanam"


and I have some questions.....

1) it is mistaken to write that the Sardinians did not have armor. in bronzetti the Uta style an armor can be seen rectangular, used also from the Etruschi. probably it was of bronze.



2) the nuragici used moreover Greave and horned Helmet........... always

3) we do not have Nuragic warrior armed with Spear, but only with bow, sword, and sling.the spear only appears to Medinet abu in the hands of the Shardana. we can only suppose they used that it....

4) the long sword was capacity places side by side to the quiver, for being able to use the bow.

5) the shield was of leather layers with metal plates probably bronze or copper, with shield boss to the center.......

6) the bow was double curved in the majority of the statues.

it has been noticed that when the Sardinians have short bow, possesses also sword and shield. other times appear with very longest bow without sword of it shield but however with the armor

watching the statues the typical crews of the Sardinians are alwaysthe bow, the sword, the shield, and the armour. therefore equipment of the Sardinian soldier was more similar to this image taken from E.B.



the more late kardiophilax, it will come replaced from armors in leather studded, made of bronze or copper. The sutds were rectangular or round.




I would want to signal also an other small error: Lilibeo (in Sicily) had been fortified with high and imposing wall from the Punics.
in fact the Roman never did not succeed to conquer it with l' siege

[Zarax]

It's good to see the subject brought up again, let's hope that we can keep the discussion into realistic realms this time.
Unfortunately the amount of published research about Nuragic military is very scarce, especially when it comes to the punic/roman period.

The most conservative scholars tend to agree about a few things:

- Nuragic tribes on the coast (except part of modern Gallura) and south Sardinia were pretty much absorbed into the punic military, using mostly imported equipment with some etruscan remnants/copies and the rare greek element here and there.

- More conservative tribes in the interior (like the Balares) used basically iron versions of the old bronze age panoplies (we're talking about the well-off warriors), bows and long daggers. Apparently there is a well preserved iron panoply waiting to be published in some museum storage in Cagliari dated around the mercenary war, where Nuragics briefly controlled most of the island as the carthaginians were busy with bigger problems.

- It also appears that some tribes in the east were heavily influenced by the balearics in fighting style but infos are not very clear around that subject.

[Dutchhoplite]

In one of the Roma Surrectum previews i saw one of the these units. Looked pretty good too ...

[dedalonur9]

In one of the Roma Surrectum previews i saw one of the these units. Looked pretty good too ...

please link.....

X Zarax.....

I hope also that we can keep the discussion into realistic realms this time.

But in order to make it you must keep in mind who many news on the history of the Sardinia is controversial

not only on the Shardana....

also the punic presence in Sardinia is debate object. the first takeover would be that one of Sirai Mount, but the archaeological report A.c. goes back alone 300 A.c..

the treaty between Rome and Cartagine (that it assigns the Sardinia to Cartagine 509 A.c.) described from Polibio would be inexact...

this is only an example..... when they are cited historical news it is easy to exit off topic...



you have photo or news of the Panoply (Nuragica) , in iron conserved to the museum of Cagliari?

to me it seems that strange of the crews in iron they are committees until to our days… quite conserved well!
it is not a case that the only found again crews are in copper or bronze....
in the West the Chinese technique was not known in order to prevent oxidation of the iron, not even in Sardinia, in which the metallurgy is very ancient....

you can also cite the sources to me to which you make reference? I do not want to make controversy but to document to me…

in any case the Sardinians introduced themselves armed until to the teeth to the Roman leave… it to suppose Tito Livio when he says that after the defeat of Ampsicora the Roman made great bonfires of dead soldiers and crews…

I doubt that however these crews were of Punic type…moreover we remember ourselves that the Cartaginesi copied very from the Greeks for which does not have much sense to speak about crews of Punico type

I have seen a Helmet equal to that one of the panoply of Dendera. the swords are similar to those Mycenae and those shardana of medinet Abu

[Zarax]

please link.....
you have photo or news of the Panoply (Nuragica) , in iron conserved to the museum of Cagliari?
to me it seems that strange of the crews in iron they are committees until to our days… quite conserved well!
it is not a case that the only found again crews are in copper or bronze....
in the West the Chinese technique was not known in order to prevent oxidation of the iron, not even in Sardinia, in which the metallurgy is very ancient....
you can also cite the sources to me to which you make reference? I do not want to make controversy but to document to me…

I wish I could be more precise, I was told about the existence of this panoply by A. Zara, who worked as technician with Dr. Lilliu on the Mt. Sirai and Nora excavations.
I've been trying to get pictures of this for over a year but no success so far, all I know about it is that it's supposed to be a punic wars era replica of a late bronze age panoply.

I doubt that however these crews were of Punic type…moreover we remember ourselves that the Cartaginesi copied very from the Greeks for which does not have much sense to speak about crews of Punico type

I agree with you on that, when I said punic/greek I mean who it was supposed to be imported from rather than the style in itself.


About controversy, I just like to have hard evidency of what we're talking about... No matter how much I love my homeland I'd rather be able to say "nuragics did this and that" with evidence rather than having some less solid theory about ancient grandeur...
After all, being able to show the huge amount of effort it took the romans to subjugate the island to me is a testament of the strenght of the nuragic people...

[dedalonur9]

I wish I could be more precise, I was told about the existence of this panoply by A. Zara, who worked as technician with Dr. Lilliu on the Mt. Sirai and Nora excavations.
I've been trying to get pictures of this for over a year but no success so far, all I know about it is that it's supposed to be a punic wars era replica of a late bronze age panoply.

Ok
I will try to find some information s this panoplea. If it has been found to Nora, the most ancient Sardinian city, could also be nuragica, as Nora and Sulki were (perhaps) the cities that more will resist to the Punic
to Mt. Sirai came for l' last defeated time l' cartaginese army of Malco, or second some of Imicolne. therefore all it can be

I agree with you on that, when I said punic/greek I mean who it was supposed to be imported from rather than the style in itself.

About controversy, I just like to have hard evidency of what we're talking about... No matter how much I love my homeland I'd rather be able to say "nuragics did this and that" with evidence rather than having some less solid theory about ancient grandeur...
After all, being able to show the huge amount of effort it took the romans to subjugate the island to me is a testament of the strenght of the nuragic people...

they are in general terms agreement with you.... it must distinguish case for case
at least l' hypothesis on the shardana I think goes as an example made...something on their way to fight at least is described: it is a way in order to try to understand us more…

[Dutchhoplite]

please link.....

I'm not entirely sure if this is allowed but this is Roma Surrectums version of the Corsico-Sardinian archer:



And the statuettes it's based upon:

[dedalonur9]

thousands thanks Duthc!

this version much more is corrected than that than E.b.

there are details that but go reviews:

1) in Sardinia never it has not been found the Iberian falcata one in the hands of your model. The Sardinian swords are much similar to the swords of the celtiums. these of continuation are examples of swords found again in Sardinia. you can recognize them also in the third statue that you have inserted




t has been then found the sword from the Shardana but it has a too much archaic form. creed did not come used in the 300 A.c. but I cannot too much be sure not even of this....The sardinian warfare is more conservative...

the sword as already said capacity in the back came (like the samurai.... ) ...near the quiver....
therefore they did not carry the Kardiophilax in the back....

2) the shield was hung to a rope...and the boss-shield it was much more to tip, was not thus round . it was an ulterior arm from tip. they did not make of the shield a passive use like the Greek oplithai ones.




an other type of Sardinian archer






in the hand in which it does not hold nothing probably had an other arm, than it cannot be other that a sword
also this warrior has an armor...