Negligent homicide?

[Goofball]

Read all about it:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23832053/

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Girl's death probed after parents rely on prayer

Wisconsin child, 11, received no medical treatment for undiagnosed illness

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WESTON, Wisconsin - Police are investigating an 11-year-old girl's death from an undiagnosed, treatable form of diabetes after her parents chose to pray for her rather than take her to a doctor.
An autopsy showed Madeline Neumann died Sunday from diabetic ketoacidosis, a condition that left too little insulin in her body, Everest Metro Police Chief Dan Vergin said.
She had probably been ill for about a month, suffering symptoms such as nausea, vomiting, excessive thirst, loss of appetite and weakness, the chief said Wednesday, noting that he expects to complete the investigation by Friday and forward the results to the district attorney.
The girl's mother, Leilani Neumann, said the family believes in the Bible and that healing comes from God, but she said they do not belong to an organized religion or faith, are not fanatics and have nothing against doctors.
She insisted her youngest child was in good health until recently.
"We just noticed a tiredness within the past two weeks," she said Wednesday. "And then, just the day before and that day (she died), it suddenly just went to a more serious situation. We stayed fast in prayer then. We believed that she would recover. We saw signs that to us, it looked like she was recovering."
Last saw doctor at age 3
Her daughter — who had not seen a doctor since she got some shots as a 3-year-old, according to Vergin — had no fever and there was warmth in her body, she said.
The girl's father, Dale Neumann, a former police officer, said he started CPR "as soon as the breath of life left" his daughter's body.
Family members elsewhere called authorities to seek help for the girl.
Police and paramedics arrived within minutes and immediately called for an ambulance that took her to a hospital. But less than an hour after authorities reached the home, Madeline _ a bright student who left public school for home schooling this semester _ was declared dead.

This really pisses me off. What kind of parent would not seek medical attention for an ill child? How about praying and taking her to the doctor? Think that might have been the thing to do? These people must be mentally deficient. Charge them, I say, pour encourager les autres...

[Don Corleone]

I've never, never, never understood this. "The Lord helps those who help themselves", straight out of the Golden Book, is apparently too much for these idiots to comprehend.

If these wombats were consistent, if they lived like neanderthals because God naturally doesn't want us to have things like hygiene, running water, electricity, permanent shelter and other 'gifts from the devil', I might understand.

But why is healing singled out? If God really is a Luddite and wants you to put your brain aside and make due with what your base model came with, why are they wearing manufactured clothes? Why do they have toilets, lights, vehicles (heck, beasts of burden for that matter).

Not to mention, as a believer, I find this viewpoint very, very insulting to God Himself. It's the equivalent of a teenager who's never received any form of physical discipline going to school and saying how terrified he is that his father will beat him over the slightest little offense.

[Big_John]

this happens every so often. i don't think religious convictions have ever been a valid defense to negligent homicide or manslaughter.

[Tribesman]

Ther was this bloke who was being swept out to sea , some people swam out to save him , he refused their assistance because he was praying and god was going to save him , next a fishing boat passed and came to the rescue , once again he refused as he had his prayers and his faith to see him through , finally the coast guard turned up in a helicopter , once again he refused all assistance as he knew god was looking after him .... he drowned .

On reaching upstairs he asked god why he drowned and how someone with such strong faith could possibly be abandoned to that fate by the almighty .
God said ..you bloody ignorant fool I sent you swimmers , a boat and a damn big helicopter , why the hell didn't you use them .

[ICantSpellDawg]

That was a dumb move. We also have to remember - unless these people were of malevolent intent - they lost their daughter (who I'm assuming that they loved) because of an egregious error in judgment. Plus they will be social pariahs.

Their lives are ruined, but pending a trial I don't believe that they should serve jail time.

[Goofball]

Well said Don.

I know many Christians, and not one of them would have acted like the parents in this case. All of them would have done exactly what I suggested: taken their kid to the doctor, and prayed for good health.

This is an even more open and shut case than some, in my mind. For example, when we have cases of JW's refusing blood transfusions for their kids, at least they can honestly say that their religious beliefs (however backward and ridiculous) forbid them from that type of treatment.

These people, OTOH, freely admitted they have nothing against doctors, on religious grounds or otherwise. They simply made the incredibly bad decision not to take their sick child to the doctor.

Jail 'em, I say...

[Vladimir]

Isn't this about as common as people who throw their baby off a bridge?

[Don Corleone]

Doesn't matter. It could be hypothetical for all I care. Goofy wasn't raising the point that "Most Christians do this", just that "Whenever I hear about this, it really ticks me off".

Jessica Lunsford and Polly Klaas hardly lived a typical American girl's life, but how much time have we all spent discussing them and others like them?

[Big_John]

who's to say the prayer was ineffective? maybe god's will was done. just holding it out there...

[Don Corleone]

Well, you're talking about a very deep level of faith in your almighty to roll those dice with your children's life, Big John, but you're right.

The way "I" usually put it when my beloved come up is "Well, big guy, you know what it would do to me if you needed them more than I do, so please keep that in mind". Still technically a "your will, not mine" plea, but I'm not certain the Lord would be getting as much out of this particular servant if something like that were to happen.

Not out of retaliation, mind you. I freely admit that I am too weak to accept the death of a child or my spouse. I know that at best, I would be a raging alcoholic for the rest of my life, and that in effect, two would die.

[Don Corleone]

And speaking to the medicine point... I'm always reminded of a parable...

A devout follower is watching the Katrina floodwaters rush up to his house. He prays and prays to the Lord to deliver him, but he doesn't leave. Instead, he moves himself up to the 2nd floor of his house.

The flood waters trap him in the house. A National Guard rescue boat pulls up to his bedroom window and the sergeant inside begs the guy to leave the house. The devotee responds "I am a Christian, and the Almighty will deliver me". The army guy pulls off.

More nervous than the let on, the devotee prays extra, extra hard, but still doesn't leave. Instead, he moves up to the attic.

He hears another boat. This time, it's the Coast Guard. A crewman cuts through the attic with an axe and begs the man to come with them. The devotee very sheepishly responds "I must wait for the Lord to deliver me, to show Him that I have faith". Shrugging, and in fear for his own life, the Coast Guard sailor takes off.

The Christian now starts praying heartily to the Lord, with all his might. He prays and prays for deliverence. He then climbs up onto his roof. A helicopter flies overhead. A rope ladder descends, and the crewmen in the helicopter shout for the man to climb up. He turns ashen, but he steels himself and pushes the ladder aside. "The Lord WILL deliver me" the man proclaims. Just then, the house collapses into the flood and the man is washed away, dying in the muddy flood.

.....
He approaches the pearly gates, his shoes squishing with water. He walks up to St. Peter. "Welcome child, come on in", St. Peter says. "Jesus has been anxiously awaiting you". The excited man bounds over to Jesus, who welcomes him with a friendly hug. "You lived a good life Charles, and I'm proud to have you come join me." The man beams, but then pauses, and a look of irritation spreads over his face. "If you loved me Lord, why did you let me die in such an awful fashion... the water was turbulent, and I died in terror and a lot of pain".

Jesus pulls back and cold cocks him with a solid right cross to the jaw. Knocked to his knees, the man rubs his sore jaw and collects himself. Slowly, he stands, and says "I'm sorry Lord, was that for questioning your will?"

"No, no Charles, not at all." Jesus smiles at the man and pats him on the back. "That's for being too stupid to climb into either of the boats or the helicopter I sent for you".

[Kralizec]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080328/...s_death_prayer
The other kdis were removed from the household.

I'd bet that both of the parents where, to put it bluntly, mentally retarded. The alternative is that they're religious whackos, wich doesn't seem to be the case.

[Big_John]

I'd bet that both of the parents where, to put it bluntly, mentally retarded. The alternative is that they're religious whackos, wich doesn't seem to be the case.

why do you say this? 'religious whackos' neglecting their child to death via prayer isn't unheard of.

[Xiahou]

why do you say this? 'religious whackos' neglecting their child to death via prayer isn't unheard of.

There's very little that's "unheard of" anymore.