Rape is a Myth

[Vladimir]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...=1770&ito=1490

Or so it seems to the BNP.

A senior BNP leader with a strong chance of winning a seat in the London Assembly next month has written that rape is a “myth” and that “some women are like gongs - they need to be struck regularly.”

The Evening Standard has revealed that Nick Eriksen, the BNP’s London organiser and the second-highest candidate on its list for the Assembly, is the author of “Sir John Bull,” a notorious far-Right blog which has regularly advocated hatred and abuse against women.

The disclosure will be a serious blow to the BNP’s hopes of London electoral success.

In August 2005, Mr Eriksen wrote: “I’ve never understood why so many men have allowed themselves to be brainwashed by the feminazi myth machine into believing that rape is such a serious crime...

“Rape is simply sex. Women enjoy sex, so rape cannot be such a terrible physical ordeal.

“To suggest that rape, when conducted without violence, is a serious crime is like suggesting that force-feeding a woman chocolate cake is a heinous offence.

“A woman would be more inconvenienced by having her handbag snatched.

“The demonisation of rape is all part of the feminazi desire to obtain power and mastery over men. Men who go along with the rape myth are either morons or traitors.”

I'm not up on English slang but I'm assuming that having your handbag snatched isn't the same as buggery.

[Kaidonni]

I believe this is one of those times when poetic justice would be all so juicy. Maybe that BNP guy could be 'raped' or something by someone else, and then we can see how he likes it. Dragged into a dark back alley by a gang, of course. Then we could all mock him and see how he likes it being down-played. That people like him even get anywhere near power is disturbing...

[Samurai Waki]

mumbles something about where the world is going to *dawns keffiyeh and grabs RPG*

[Guildenstern]

I just found this while surfing the net:

http://www.d.umn.edu/cla/faculty/jha...925/myths.html

I think it may be useful in pointing out how foolish the BNP leader's statements are.

[Ronin]

so in the UK there is no restriction on the mentally handicapped occupying public office I see

what a moron....

''To suggest that rape, when conducted without violence, is a serious crime is like suggesting that force-feeding a woman chocolate cake is a heinous offence.''

how is rape conducted without violence exactly? there will always be the threat of violence at the very least...

no one is saying that a woman claiming rape incorrectly doesn´t happen...but to go as far as to say that the crime doesn´t exist at all is just


one would hope that this runs across some fiend in a dark alley that bends him over a trashcan and gives him a whole new outlook on life......after all that wouldn´t be rape.....men like sex right?

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

It's also pretty foolish in it's own right though. Yes Rape is an act of violence but it can be a lot of other things and if a scumbag gets drunk and rapes a woman because he can't take no for an answer and can't keep it is his pants it's still rape.

[hellenes]

While I find this statement idiotic I must stress out how powerful a woman can be and practically frame any man alive and send him to prison for rape....with lots of tears and lies....just think about it...

[Fragony]

told you I wasn't realy a girl

[Adrian II]

Can't the Daily Mail get anything right?

In August 2005, Sir John Bull vented his rage over a recent finding with regard to so-called Rohypnol-rape.

An analysis was recently conducted by the Forensic Science Service of over 1,000 cases where women had complained that their drinks had been spiked. Not one showed any trace of Rohypnol. NOT ONE.

It turns out that these stupid tarts are simply getting blind drunk, taking 'recreational' drugs themselves, and then having sex. Next day they wake up with an almighty hangover and a deep feeling of shame and regret. So what do they do then? Why cry rape of course, and try to get a poor innocent man sent to prison in order to save their 'reputation' - as if they had one!

Then he goes on to complain that feminists have 'watered down' the definition of rape.

Obviously violent stranger-rape will be traumatic, but feminazis have stretched the definition of rape to include 'date-rape' and even 'husband-rape'!

Sir John Bull may not be the most eloquent blogger, but I think he has a point..

[Mikeus Caesar]

The fact he says 'feminazis' means he is inciting Godwin's Law, thus his arguments are rendered null and void and stupid.

Although, it doesn't require Godwin's law to figure that out.

[Adrian II]

The fact he says 'feminazis' means he is inciting Godwin's Law, thus his arguments are rendered null and void and stupid.

Although, it doesn't require Godwin's law to figure that out.

You can't seem to get it right either.

Godwin's Law is a law of probability; it says nothing about the appropriateness of comparisons.

Here's what it says:

As a Usenet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving
Nazis or Hitler approaches one.

[Lemur]

Don't be pedantic, Adrian. Losing the argument due to referencing Nazis is the most well-known corollary to Godwin's Law, and generally understood by all denizens of the Internet tubes. To insist that everyone say, "I invoke the best-known corollary of Godwin's Law, so you lose!" is unwieldy and unnecessary.

[Adrian II]

Don't be pedantic, Adrian. Losing the argument due to referencing Nazis is the most well-known corollary to Godwin's Law, and generally understood by all denizens of the Internet tubes. To insist that everyone say, "I invoke the best-known corollary of Godwin's Law, so you lose!" is unwieldy and unnecessary.

Invoking Godwin is in itself poor form. I refer the Lemur to Quirk's law.

P.S. Alternatively, I could use the Bentsen Defense: "Mikeus Ceasar, you're no Mike Godwin."

[Fragony]

Let's not complicate things, one situation, one explanation one godwin

[Geoffrey S]

Meh. First person to invoke Godwin's Law loses the debate in my opinion, and such posts don't tend to take part in debate anyway.

Anyway. Fortuitous timing for whoever else is taking part in the elections.

[Adrian II]

Let's not complicate things, one situation, one explanation one godwin

Let me complicate this further: no law actually covers the phenomenon of a neonazi (Sir John Bull) using 'nazi' as a swearword ('feminazi').

Only Van der Leun's Corollary comes close: "As global connectivity improves, the probability of actual Nazis being on the Net approaches one".

[Fragony]

Ok now I am confused

[Pannonian]

Let me complicate this further: no law actually covers the phenomenon of a neonazi (Sir John Bull) using 'nazi' as a swearword ('feminazi').

Only Van der Leun's Corollary comes close: "As global connectivity improves, the probability of actual Nazis being on the Net approaches one".

There was an interesting incident in TWC where a poster came up with some impressive-looking graphs to support his argument, until it was shot down by the revelation that he'd asked his mates in Stormfront to provide him with a supporting argument. Haven't seen that chap in TWC since, and he's also changed his Stormfront handle since then.

[Adrian II]

Fortuitous timing for whoever else is taking part in the elections.

I believe the honourable member from Shell Beach has it. Looks like the Evening Standard, the Daily Mail and other Tory papers are trying to secure a Tory Assembly seat by smearing a BNP candidate. Not that he needed much dirt added to his curriculum..

[Mithrandir]

I'm glad we all realise that the quote in the original post is so incredibly stupid that we've changed the discussion to other things...

[Big_John]

Then he goes on to complain that feminists have 'watered down' the definition of rape.

Obviously violent stranger-rape will be traumatic, but feminazis have stretched the definition of rape to include 'date-rape' and even 'husband-rape'!

Sir John Bull may not be the most eloquent blogger, but I think he has a point..

eh.. it is important to recognize the power that erroneous rape accusations have, but date-rape and husband-rape are as real as any other form (stranger-rape is the least common form). and both generally involve significant violence. the sexual act itself, without consent, is at least battery.

but dumb drunk girls consenting to get flowere.. i mean get ed and then regretting it should not be a crime, and there he has a point if those incidents are leading to prosecutions.

[Adrian II]

He is a right-wing nutter alright, but do we really need any further proof of that if he already represents a party that wants an "all-white" Britain and a leader (Nick Griffin) who has said, among other things, that Britain is a "multi-racial hellhole", that Islam is a "wicked, vicious faith", that homosexuality is "repulsive" and should be "outlawed", that the Holocaust is "the hoax of the 20th century" and that "nonwhites have no place in Britain and we will not rest until every last one has left our land"?

There's a lesson in there somewhere, init?

What does it mean if all the BNP crap I quoted above isn't enough to discredit that party in the eyes of a growing chunk of the electorate? Why do we need the Daily Mail - of all the abominable rags in the world - to find some out-of-context quotes to smear this guy? It spells only one thing to me: fear.

The BNP may well be the 'shocker' of the coming GLA election, regardless of whether Ken or Boris becomes Mayor. Last time round they won 4.8 percent with UKIP in the frame, this time round they may get double that percentage and get two seats in one go. In recent by-elections, the BNP have defeated Tory, Labour and LibDem candidates in perfectly pleasant, bourgeois districts. Their anti-Muslim, anti-immigrant, fascist social rhetoric has served them well and will continue to do so.

I believe that is the real bad news here: the only smear that might actually hurt the BNP electorally is if they are shown to condone rape.

[Papewaio]

You can't seem to get it right either.

Godwin's Law is a law of probability; it says nothing about the appropriateness of comparisons.

Here's what it says:

As a Usenet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving
Nazis or Hitler approaches one.

And as I've already demonstrated is mathematically obvious.

An infinite discussion will cover all comparisons. As the length of any discussion increases it goes closer to infinity. Hence as any discussion grows longer, the probability of comparison involving any subject approaches one.

So Godwin's Law doesn't demonstrate anything more then saying a room full of monkey's with an infinite amount of time will produce the works of Shakespeare. In that time they will also reproduce every other instance of man kinds work including Mein Kampf.

So invoking Godwin's Law or any of its variants is just making a statement of the obvious.

For the more specific idea that mentioning Nazi's means you lose an argument that is a very easily proved fallacy.

Is it false to say that the Nazi's were in World War II? No, therefore the variant is false.

[Adrian II]

And as I've already demonstrated is mathematically obvious.

An infinite discussion will cover all comparisons. As the length of any discussion increases it goes closer to infinity. Hence as any discussion grows longer, the probability of comparison involving any subject approaches one.

Logically, yes.

However, Godwin's law is empirical. It is based on an observed distribution of nazi-instances in a series of finite discussions.

Clickety

Is it false to say that the Nazi's were in World War II? No, therefore the variant is false.

Sure. And is it false to call a poster nazi when he is a nazi? No again.

But what if a nazi uses the nazi-comparison?

[Papewaio]

Still it is a trivial outcome and hence doesn't actually have any more weight then 2+2 = 4. Something is not significant just because it happens.

I would say the reason we see Nazi more often then Mongol is a matter of cultural familiarity. Name calling in itself is what normally shows that a debater is either out of ammunition or cool. Calling someone a Nazi is just plain rude so it a discussion is lost not because of the mentioning of Goose-stepping Hugo Boss wearing blonds its the insulting nature that is being used. I'm sure in different boards there will be key terms of pain. I'm sure is some boards the calling someone a commie would happen more often then calling them Nazis even if the intent to insult is the same.

Mind you I've always found the term lemonazi more funny then femnazi. But then I'm just bitter and twisted.

[HoreTore]

Can't say that I'm very surprised by this though...

[ajaxfetish]

how is rape conducted without violence exactly? there will always be the threat of violence at the very least...

Well, I expect many instances of statutory rape are conducted without violence. I suppose it's also quite possible that the rape of an unconscious individual could be committed without real or threatened violence. Generally speaking, though, rape is certainly a violent act, and date-rape or marital rape are no less rape than any other form.

Ajax

[Furious Mental]

I am not going to conform to all your goddamn freedom hating forum rules, Nazis!

[hellenes]

He is a right-wing nutter alright, but do we really need any further proof of that if he already represents a party that wants an "all-white" Britain and a leader (Nick Griffin) who has said, among other things, that Britain is a "multi-racial hellhole", that Islam is a "wicked, vicious faith", that homosexuality is "repulsive" and should be "outlawed", that the Holocaust is "the hoax of the 20th century" and that "nonwhites have no place in Britain and we will not rest until every last one has left our land"?

There's a lesson in there somewhere, init?

What does it mean if all the BNP crap I quoted above isn't enough to discredit that party in the eyes of a growing chunk of the electorate? Why do we need the Daily Mail - of all the abominable rags in the world - to find some out-of-context quotes to smear this guy? It spells only one thing to me: fear.

The BNP may well be the 'shocker' of the coming GLA election, regardless of whether Ken or Boris becomes Mayor. Last time round they won 4.8 percent with UKIP in the frame, this time round they may get double that percentage and get two seats in one go. In recent by-elections, the BNP have defeated Tory, Labour and LibDem candidates in perfectly pleasant, bourgeois districts. Their anti-Muslim, anti-immigrant, fascist social rhetoric has served them well and will continue to do so.

I believe that is the real bad news here: the only smear that might actually hurt the BNP electorally is if they are shown to condone rape.

Its so funny how nazism and Islam are much closer than BNP thinks...

[naut]

Why hate women??

One out of every eight adult women has been a victim of forcible rape.

That figure is so huge the mind boggles!