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Thread: Mass Immigration; No Benefit.

  1. #91
    Pining for the glory days... Member lancelot's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mass Immigration; No Benefit.

    The 90+ age demographic is now the fastest growing age bracket in the UK...a worrying statistic.

    Immigration to the UK at present is the modern equivalent of share-cropping...virtual economic slavery that benefits greedy corporate bosses who now instead of paying a decent wage for many jobs find it more economical to hire a boat load of Polish or whatever.

    This problem is in turn made worse by the astronomical cost of the housing market- no wonder people are not reproducing is sufficient numbers, it is so expensive in the UK (especially in/near London) the average near London flat (2 bedroom if you are lucky) costing £250-300,000 easy (thats half a million $ to our Yankee friends)

    Which ultimately means- we need those immigrants, as much as I am loathe to admit it...but this in turn is fueling resentment over the issue; and so on and on the sick little cycle proceeds.

    Worker immigration is only benefitting one group of people- fat cat employers, who else does it benefit? Does the saving made on hiring cheap labour get passed onto the consumer? In theory supposedly, in reality? Like hell it does.

    I think there is only one real question to ask when considering the benefits of mass cheap labour. Q: Why did all states abolish slavery- the ultimate expression of cheap labour? A: Because it was an economically ruinous enterprise that devalued the worth of other labour forces.
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  2. #92
    Bopa Member Incongruous's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mass Immigration; No Benefit.

    Why was immigration (one of the most collosal events in British History) not voted on? Or never discussed properly between govt. and public?
    I mean it is an identity altering event, changes the faces of nations yet no one has ever really voted on it.

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  3. #93
    Professional Cynic Member Innocentius's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mass Immigration; No Benefit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bopa the Magyar
    Why was immigration (one of the most collosal events in British History) not voted on? Or never discussed properly between govt. and public?
    I mean it is an identity altering event, changes the faces of nations yet no one has ever really voted on it.
    Because if given the opportunity to vote, the people would have voted against, perhaps not with a great majority, but still against. And if the people voted against, the Brits would be horrible racists, and the world would hate them.

    Of course, the Brits have a lot of colonial history to deal with, but that's no reason their population should have to feel some sort of collective guilt and repent this with taking one more immigrants than they can even handle. Same goes with Germany, France, Spain... heck, all European countries. I, personally, can't think of any non-European countries that are trying to beg the world for forgiveness by slowly ruining their own country.
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  4. #94
    Clan Clan InsaneApache's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mass Immigration; No Benefit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bopa the Magyar
    Why was immigration (one of the most collosal events in British History) not voted on? Or never discussed properly between govt. and public?
    I mean it is an identity altering event, changes the faces of nations yet no one has ever really voted on it.
    Here's a thought to make you ponder......

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    The problem with accusing a government, or any institution or person, of incompetence is that it seems to excuse its motives.

    When we say, as we should often feel the temptation to do, that the Labour administration that has governed us for the past 11 years is incompetent, we should be aware also that we are saying the following: that, but for its administrative and technical failings, it would have done well.

    I do not believe this to be true. Despite the sheen of reason that Gordon Brown and, before him, Tony Blair and their chums have sought to put on all they do, this Government has had dark motives from the start.

    It has followed policies deliberately that have enabled it to pursue its own political agenda - and this has always been a deeply politically motivated government in the way that Lady Thatcher's was, and that John Major's wasn't - and irrespective of some of the dire consequences that might flow from those policies.

    The element of deliberation and deliberateness in what Labour has done makes an accusation of incompetence, or carelessness, seem wide of the mark. Things were meant to be this way.

    Labour has pursued policies, be they social or economic, for ideological reasons: and when they fail, as so many have, it has not been because of slipshod administration. It is because that was how things were always going to work out.

    I mention this in the specific context of the House of Lords report on the benefits - or lack of them - of mass immigration. The theory applies, however, to much else, immediate or not. Some feel that mass immigration happened by accident; or that Labour's economic miracle was, indeed, so miraculous that it required hecatombs of foreigners to come here and undertake it.

    The second contention was paraded in an interview yesterday by the immigration minister, Liam Byrne, on Radio 4's Today programme. With one and a half million unemployed, perhaps the same again on nebulous "training schemes", and about three million on incapacity benefit - many of whom would, if asked, be fit for non-manual work - the idea that we have so small a pool of labour here that we must borrow from abroad is simply preposterous.

    That does not stop Mr Byrne from saying the opposite. He must. He has to cover up for the deliberate decision taken at the time when Jack Straw was Home Secretary, and maintained (though he often protested to the contrary) by his successor, David Blunkett, that immigration controls should not be enforced.

    Why was this decision taken? It was because of a doctrinally driven determination by the new Government in 1997 to destroy our national identity and to advance multiculturalism.

    How funny it is now that we should have a Prime Minister - who as a member of the government at the time no doubt was busy when such decisions were made - who bangs on about "Britishness", amid the sound of the slamming of stable doors.

    How amusing, too, that in the aftermath of four young British men blowing up themselves, and 52 other people, on public transport in London in 2005, many old Leftists should now decide that multiculturalism wasn't so great after all.

    Mr Byrne well understands his political duty to try to minimise harmful perceptions of the awful consequences of this policy, and he sought, not especially successfully, to do that too in his interview. This process of denial is long-standing.

    When eventually an immigration officer, Steve Moxon, had the courage to put his head above the parapet in 2004 and expose the lack of enforcement of controls, he was promptly sacked (as indeed was the then immigration minister, Beverley Hughes).

    The Government had blithely ignored torrents of stories in the press about the inflow of "asylum seekers", who, in the days before the former Soviet bloc entered the EU, came here purely for economic reasons, and not because of any fear of persecution. Ministers - Mr Blunkett was especially good at this - started to talk about the impending mass deportation of illegal immigrants, but it never happened.

    It was hard enough to find the political will to throw out those inciting terrorism and racial hatred against the indigenous Christian community, never mind removing those who were comparatively harmless.

    So now, confronted with hard evidence that immigrants add a matter of pence each to our economic growth, while putting impossible strains on housing, transport and social services (and particularly in the south-east of England), Labour has to find excuses.

    Mr Byrne's seemed to be that what happened was all very successful, so successful that it might have to stop. You will not hear him admit that it was a plan by Labour ideologues to shake up society, and to pursue the movement's traditional internationalism, in a cynical and determined way.

    When one applies the doctrine on non-incompetence more widely, one hears other echoes. We have lived beyond our means not because economic growth has not, or will not, live up to its earlier billing, but because Mr Brown's priority was to create a client state of feather-bedded Labour voters.

    Knowing it would harm economic stability, he set about printing money and borrowing excessively to put people on the public payroll, and to cushion hordes of the undeserving, Labour-voting poor with welfare benefits. This was not incompetent, however it might look: it was deliberate and stunning in its calculation.

    So, too, for a further example, was education policy. A Marxist-driven philosophy of anti-elitism forced down standards: but if the level of attainment required to pass a public examination is forced down too, then, voilà! we all look much cleverer than we used to be.

    The results of this only become apparent when the halfwits produced go out and try to run something, such as getting our railways repaired on time, or even Terminal 5.

    Mr Brown also had a policy of making fathers redundant in families, by downgrading the state's respect for marriage, and providing a career structure for single mothers that included state-provided childcare.

    Coupled with the Blairite policy of turning the police into a weapon of social engineering from one of crime fighting, he has presented us with today's under-achieving, feral youth, with its knives and guns, going around killing each other and making our cities seem like the dirtier suburbs of Los Angeles.

    I know it is tempting to call these terrible things the results of government incompetence. They really are not. Mr Blair and Mr Brown between them chose to do these things, or allowed ministers and officials to do them.

    They were all part of the plan for "change" (oh, how we love that word) after 18 years of Tory misrule.

    We need to reflect more, indeed hourly, on how well those plans have turned out; and what should happen to those still in office who remain responsible for inflicting their bigotries and stupidities on the rest of us, under the guise of "progress"


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/m.../02/do0201.xml
    There are times I wish they’d just ban everything- baccy and beer, burgers and bangers, and all the rest- once and for all. Instead, they creep forward one apparently tiny step at a time. It’s like being executed with a bacon slicer.

    “Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy.”

    To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticise.

    "The purpose of a university education for Left / Liberals is to attain all the politically correct attitudes towards minorties, and the financial means to live as far away from them as possible."

  5. #95

    Default Re: Mass Immigration; No Benefit.

    Why was immigration (one of the most collosal events in British History) not voted on? Or never discussed properly between govt. and public?
    I mean it is an identity altering event, changes the faces of nations yet no one has ever really voted on it.
    What collosal event ? do you mean 1066 and them damn Norman immigrants ?
    So its an identity altering event that changes the face of nations , but has always happened and countries are always changing so what is your point ?

    Anyway it is dicussed and is voted on , the problem is that the parties that have a strong anti-immigrant basis generally tend to be populated by brainless morons who fail to have any policy apart from blame the foriegners for everything so they never amount to much .

    The 90+ age demographic is now the fastest growing age bracket in the UK...a worrying statistic.
    Yeah damn Brits with their healthcare and pensions , them old gits should do the decent thing and die at an early age like they used to ...it is neccesary for upholding tradition and quelling so called worrying statistics , 70+ is quite sufficient , everyone can applaud the old buggers for hanging on that long , but when they get past 90 its just obscene .
    But anyway since the economic issue seems to be providing for the old gits can you not just raise the pension age again , or perhaps institute a cull when people go beyond the working age ?

  6. #96
    Clan Clan InsaneApache's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mass Immigration; No Benefit.

    So its an identity altering event that changes the face of nations , but has always happened and countries are always changing so what is your point ?
    While this is true Tribes it's the scale of the immigration over the last decade that's different. There weren't that many Normans/Huguenots/Flemish/Bangladeshis etc etc that settled in the UK. It's funny hearing the descendents of southern Asians talking about those 'bloody foreigners coming over here taking our jobs' it takes me back to the 60s.
    There are times I wish they’d just ban everything- baccy and beer, burgers and bangers, and all the rest- once and for all. Instead, they creep forward one apparently tiny step at a time. It’s like being executed with a bacon slicer.

    “Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy.”

    To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticise.

    "The purpose of a university education for Left / Liberals is to attain all the politically correct attitudes towards minorties, and the financial means to live as far away from them as possible."

  7. #97
    A very, very Senior Member Adrian II's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mass Immigration; No Benefit.

    Funny report, by the way - the report quoted in the OP. It says on page 13:

    [..] it would not be right to estimate
    the total contribution of all migrant workers
    simply by subtracting their productive output
    and numbers respectively from the numerator
    and denominator of the GDP per head ratio
    calculation. The integration of migrant workers
    in the economy, and their ability to complement
    the activities of other workers, means that the
    impact on national output of a total withdrawal
    of migrant labour would be likely to be very
    substantial. However, quantifying this impact is
    diffi cult given the lack of data in this area and
    the large number of assumptions that would
    underpin estimates of productive potential.
    In other words, the economic contribution of migrants is 'likely' to be 'substantial', but we will simply discount it because we can't measure it. And let's subtract their productive output and numbers from GPD p/h anyway.

    Idiots.
    Last edited by Adrian II; 04-05-2008 at 15:02.
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  8. #98
    Pining for the glory days... Member lancelot's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mass Immigration; No Benefit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tribesman
    Yeah damn Brits with their healthcare and pensions , them old gits should do the decent thing and die at an early age like they used to ...it is neccesary for upholding tradition and quelling so called worrying statistics , 70+ is quite sufficient , everyone can applaud the old buggers for hanging on that long , but when they get past 90 its just obscene .
    But anyway since the economic issue seems to be providing for the old gits can you not just raise the pension age again , or perhaps institute a cull when people go beyond the working age ?

    Take what I said out of context much?

    I was not critizsing them for living too long or anything. I was simply pointing out that given this age bracket is the fastest growing it suggests that young people are not breeding in sufficient numbers...and reasons for that need a serious looking into.

    For if the trend continues, the country will obviously be having difficulties in the future.

    At the very least- if the ratio of old to young increases then a greater burden will be placed on the young to either care for and/or contribute taxes to cover the cost of ever increasing care for the elderly. Which in turn could have the possible outcomes of less disposable income for the young leading to further financial difficulties to put off breeding. Its quite a vicious circle that we could be facing here.
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  9. #99
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mass Immigration; No Benefit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Adrian II
    In other words, the economic contribution of migrants is 'likely' to be 'substantial', but we will simply discount it because we can't measure it. And let's subtract their productive output and numbers from GPD p/h anyway.

    Idiots.


    What's so hard about getting data? Can't take a dump without the tax agency knowing what kind of toiletpaper you use.

  10. #100
    A very, very Senior Member Adrian II's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mass Immigration; No Benefit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fragony


    What's so hard about getting data? Can't take a dump without the tax agency knowing what kind of toiletpaper you use.
    Exactly.
    The bloody trouble is we are only alive when we’re half dead trying to get a paragraph right. - Paul Scott

  11. #101

    Default Re: Mass Immigration; No Benefit.

    I was not critizsing them for living too long or anything. I was simply pointing out that given this age bracket is the fastest growing it suggests that young people are not breeding in sufficient numbers...and reasons for that need a serious looking into.
    oh the reasons ..thats simple to look into isn't it , they are of an age of when there hasn't been a decent respectable cull of people of certain age groups through warfare to seriously dimish their numbers or a period where the prospect of going off to your death has led to copulating like rabbits because there may not be no tomorrow .
    So tell me Lancelot of these worrying statistics you talk of , what proportion are women who would have missed the cull ?
    Couple the dates of the culls of the male population and the breeding age of the females and where the hell do you need to seriously look ?...oh of course the improvements in the health and financial provisions as they must be relevant ...which follow the last centuries first big cull of the male population...yeah it really needs some serious looking into

    Take what I said out of context much?
    Take what you said with relevant information and it is taken as bollox .
    If you want to talk of context concerning demographics then utilise the relevant events , if not then it is bollox .

    So since on looking at the subject you cannot really have been talking of anything other than the amount of old biddys claiming the pension then one must ask ..what do you have against Mrs Brady the little old lady ?

    Or am I to take it that with all your talk of...
    a serious looking into.
    ...you havn't really given it any thought or looked into it ?

    Though I must say that Mrs Brady old lady is a vile creature that needs to be culled .

  12. #102

    Default Re: Mass Immigration; No Benefit.

    Ah well the good wifeen has pointed out a flaw in my position ...the bloody Irish immigrants in relation to life expectancy of the host country....so that needs further thought , though not on the male/female population front so much .

  13. #103
    Pining for the glory days... Member lancelot's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mass Immigration; No Benefit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tribesman
    oh the reasons ..thats simple to look into isn't it , they are of an age of when there hasn't been a decent respectable cull of people of certain age groups through warfare to seriously dimish their numbers or a period where the prospect of going off to your death has led to copulating like rabbits because there may not be no tomorrow .
    So tell me Lancelot of these worrying statistics you talk of , what proportion are women who would have missed the cull ?
    Couple the dates of the culls of the male population and the breeding age of the females and where the hell do you need to seriously look ?...oh of course the improvements in the health and financial provisions as they must be relevant ...which follow the last centuries first big cull of the male population...yeah it really needs some serious looking into
    I have absolutely no idea where all this talk of culls is coming from and I can barely discern your point on this regard so I am going to disregard it completely.


    Take what you said with relevant information and it is taken as bollox .
    If you want to talk of context concerning demographics then utilise the relevant events , if not then it is bollox .
    What exactly are these 'relevant events' you speak of?


    So since on looking at the subject you cannot really have been talking of anything other than the amount of old biddys claiming the pension then one must ask ..what do you have against Mrs Brady the little old lady?
    My point in a nutshell was the 90+ age bracket is growing the fastest in the UK and that probably isnt a good thing for the economic (at least) well being of the country.

    I dont like answering a question with a question but I am forced to ask- why exactly do you have such a problem with this line of reasoning? Do you think Im wrong with this simple notion. If so fine, Im not here to 'prove' anything, its just an opinion. I may be wrong, hell I probably am; but I dont see why you are digging me out over a simple proposition, which I dont think is that logically defunct...

    And finally what is with the self-rightious, holier than thou attitude that makes you come across as a bit of a jerk? Im just here making conversation as such, not to stroke my ego by seeking arguments and proving how much smarter I am than everybody else.

    If you dont like my point, thats cool, why dont you suggest something better rather than making snide comments.

    So either drop the attitude or Im done with this thread...I dont come here to be belittled.
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  14. #104
    Things Change Member JAG's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mass Immigration; No Benefit.

    I don't know what is more disgusting - people who hate immigrants, disrespect their hard work and endeavor and cannot concede one bit that they create benefits to the economy. Or the people who state we should have a cap and choose precisely who we should allow in - Yes, we will have all the third worlds doctors and nurses, India's businessmen and Russia's Billionaires, but HOLD ON! You there, you the one from the Sudan, you can't come in, you are not worth it. This attitude of hating immigration and all it stands for, which is peddled by the Sun and Daily Mail - and the rest - is so easily forgotten for them, when they say - oh but we will have the nurses! It is disgraceful.

    All sides of this argument, as it is shaped at the moment in the UK are absolutely morally bankrupt. I am sure when people are asked on the street how much they think net migration is in this country, they will give you figures in the millions, not knowing that the figure is at less than 300,000 - and this is the highest it has been, for understandable reasons. New nations have joined the EU and until their economies improve, their young - in particular - will come over here and work to get money and experience. What no one states however, when they are screaming about the net migration figures is that it will go back down again, settle, and most will return to their country of origin.

    In the early 90's more people were LEAVING this country than entering it. We are already seeing, for the first time in 4 years, more Polish people leaving the country than entering - as their economies at home improve they will move back home. This basic point destroys the hate mongering myths of the Daily Mail. And if people really think there is no benefit to immigration, go to a working farm and see who picks the strawberries from dawn to dusk for minimum wage and who makes our goods - and think how much more you would be paying at Tesco's if it was British workers at £2 more an hour.

    It is not often I will say this, but this is one issue where small business has got it right and trade unions have it wrong - listen to what small business say, they simply won't survive in this country without immigrant labour. It is not that they won't train British workers, it is that British workers won't do it! A sad fact and something which needs to be sorted in a number of ways, but it is what it is, maybe when people suddenly wonder why prices are going up and inflation is suddenly rising at a large rate - without those pesky immigrants keeping wages from spiking - maybe then people will realise the value of immigrant labour.

    Man, I sound like a raving free market right winger, but it is a lie that immigrants don't help the economy. On a human, moral, economic and selfish reason everyone should love immigration not hate it. The report states how the working class gets squeezed out by immigration and get hit the most - this is not immigration or the immigrants fault, it is the fault of our SYSTEM and the way we live, not to mention the terrible policies introduced over the last 30 years and the lack - or not enough - of policies on the otherside. The working class are getting left behind not because of immigrants but because of so many other factors, and immigration shouldn't be used as a scapegoat.

    However, most of the time over here you end up talking to a brick wall.
    GARCIN: I "dreamt," you say. It was no dream. When I chose the hardest path, I made my choice deliberately. A man is what he wills himself to be.
    INEZ: Prove it. Prove it was no dream. It's what one does, and nothing else, that shows the stuff one's made of.
    GARCIN: I died too soon. I wasn't allowed time to - to do my deeds.
    INEZ: One always dies too soon - or too late. And yet one's whole life is complete at that moment, with a line drawn neatly under it, ready for the summing up. You are - your life, and nothing else.

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  15. #105

    Default Re: Mass Immigration; No Benefit.

    I have absolutely no idea where all this talk of culls is coming from and I can barely discern your point on this regard so I am going to disregard it completely.
    Oh sorry Lance , its a bit hard to understand isn't it .
    What exactly are these 'relevant events' you speak of?
    Ah theres the problem , lets see eh , if someone is 90+ what would be the range of their years of birth ?

    I dont like answering a question with a question but I am forced to ask- why exactly do you have such a problem with this line of reasoning?
    because you throw out a statistic , claim it is worrying but do not explore the factors that create the statistic.

  16. #106
    Bopa Member Incongruous's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mass Immigration; No Benefit.

    I think Tribes is saying that of coarse, due to massive improvements in lifestyle and healthcare, the older are staying older for longer. So of coarse as time goes on, there will be more of them. There is no scary population swing involved, merley better health.

    As for those culls, were you speaking about wars and plagues and such?

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  17. #107

    Default Re: Mass Immigration; No Benefit.

    Indeed Bopa spot on , if you want to use a figure for people who are becoming 90+ now one must consider not only events in the past 90 years as it is their lifetime , but as it is the statistic about people who are becoming 90+ you must also consider earlier years and people who would have become 90+ before.

    But when you do that it doesn't become a worrying statistic it becomes an easily predictable and long forcastable event . Just like the future rise in that age group due to the next big population cull/birth boom is easily predictable .

    Now the problem can be easily dealt with , it doesn't involve immigrants or raising taxes the pension age or anyhing like that .
    These people are reaching the age they are mainly due to the improvements in health provision over their lifetime , now the health service is at a stage where hospitals are more aesthetically pleasing with big fluffy duvets , wall to wall carpeting and no overpowering stench of disinfectant .
    I suggest that as more and more minor ailments are easily treatable with very minor invasive proceedures nowadays that the government should impliment a health drive to get as many of these old people into hospital as possible .....then let the superbugs do the work .

  18. #108
    Bopa Member Incongruous's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mass Immigration; No Benefit.

    Again, I ask what I feel to be a most pressing question.
    Why does the Government not allow a vote on this most important of issues?
    Why does everyone seem to think that it is a no go area for debate? Why do some believe it is a right of all to go where they please and live? Do the massive cultural affects have no weight at all?
    Was Enoch right?

    p.s If I am now going to suffer some rather stupid comments about racism, can I also recieve some info on why that is?
    Last edited by Incongruous; 04-12-2008 at 04:45.

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    has a Senior Member HoreTore's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mass Immigration; No Benefit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bopa the Magyar
    Why does the Government not allow a vote on this most important of issues?
    Unless I'm mistaken, most western countries hold elections about every 4th year.
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

  20. #110
    Bopa Member Incongruous's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mass Immigration; No Benefit.

    Quote Originally Posted by HoreTore
    Unless I'm mistaken, most western countries hold elections about every 4th year.
    feel witty?
    Feel like you have done you're part?
    Why don't you try and be constructive? Or would that require some respect for my question, and me?
    You know, you do nothing but make me more confused, I thought you might explain.

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  21. #111
    Things Change Member JAG's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mass Immigration; No Benefit.

    The best and most compelling argument against allowing referendums on 'important' issues is that not only can you not state what is 'important' enough to allow 'the people' to vote on it - and who decides what 'important' is, it is in itself completely partisan and distorted. But more than this, if 'the people' are given votes on all 'important' issues you get to a situation where you are destroying the thing you are trying to protect and strenghen. By making everyone vote on all 'important' issues you trivialise issues, bring them down to sound bites and headlines rather than reasoned debate and furthermore you end up creating an atmosphere of disinterest, disrespect and apathy towards not only democracy and the 'important' issues but to the heart of society in a nation.

    Basically, the more you try and force people to vote on issues all the time, the more they will say, I don't give two... Plus reasoned debate, by elected officials is how issues in democracy should work - the people are not always right.
    GARCIN: I "dreamt," you say. It was no dream. When I chose the hardest path, I made my choice deliberately. A man is what he wills himself to be.
    INEZ: Prove it. Prove it was no dream. It's what one does, and nothing else, that shows the stuff one's made of.
    GARCIN: I died too soon. I wasn't allowed time to - to do my deeds.
    INEZ: One always dies too soon - or too late. And yet one's whole life is complete at that moment, with a line drawn neatly under it, ready for the summing up. You are - your life, and nothing else.

    Jean Paul Sartre - No Exit 1944

  22. #112
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mass Immigration; No Benefit.

    Beats me as well. I don't know how it is in England but the most vocal supporters of immigration here live in 100% white neighbourhoods, their kids go to 100% white schools. A toy for the elite.

    edit, was directed at bopa
    Last edited by Fragony; 04-13-2008 at 11:24.

  23. #113
    Feeding the Peanut Gallery Senior Member Redleg's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mass Immigration; No Benefit.

    Quote Originally Posted by JAG
    Basically, the more you try and force people to vote on issues all the time, the more they will say, I don't give two... Plus reasoned debate, by elected officials is how issues in democracy should work - the people are not always right.
    Actually that is not how a democracy should work. The people have to have a say in what direction their nation is going. Now politicians should do more in the reasonable debate process to inform the people, but to discount people's emotions and reasoning in order to pursue a course that goes against what the people want normally leads to conflict.
    O well, seems like 'some' people decide to ruin a perfectly valid threat. Nice going guys... doc bean

  24. #114
    has a Senior Member HoreTore's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mass Immigration; No Benefit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bopa the Magyar
    feel witty?
    Feel like you have done you're part?
    Why don't you try and be constructive? Or would that require some respect for my question, and me?
    You know, you do nothing but make me more confused, I thought you might explain.
    Again, unless I'm mistaken, parties who want a restrictive immigration policy have existed for many years in most countries. But they have not gained a lot of votes in elections, thus one must assume that the people wants immigration.

    If they did not, they would vote for these far-right parties instead of the liberal centre and leftist parties. Assuming, of course, that people view immigration as an important issue.
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

  25. #115
    Clan Clan InsaneApache's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mass Immigration; No Benefit.

    In the May elections I predict the BNP to do better than expected. They're pretty right wing. British jobs for British workers! Sounds uncannily familiar.
    There are times I wish they’d just ban everything- baccy and beer, burgers and bangers, and all the rest- once and for all. Instead, they creep forward one apparently tiny step at a time. It’s like being executed with a bacon slicer.

    “Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy.”

    To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticise.

    "The purpose of a university education for Left / Liberals is to attain all the politically correct attitudes towards minorties, and the financial means to live as far away from them as possible."

  26. #116
    Chieftain of the Pudding Race Member Evil_Maniac From Mars's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mass Immigration; No Benefit.

    Quote Originally Posted by InsaneApache
    In the May elections I predict the BNP to do better than expected. They're pretty right wing. British jobs for British workers! Sounds uncannily familiar.
    http://www.politicalcompass.org/extremeright

  27. #117
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mass Immigration; No Benefit.

    BNP are scum but if I was brittish I would still vote for them because there is no decent alternative. Political party's have many problems but a lack of moral flexibility isn't one of them, if we move, they move.

  28. #118

    Default Re: Mass Immigration; No Benefit.

    What will you do when the population of Britain is comprised in a majority from immigrants from muslim countries who have no interest in British culture?

    What will you do when your political power is eliminated by the immigrants and you no longer have a voice?

    What will you do when you are the minority?

    Don't pretend it can't happen.
    "Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds." -Einstein

    Quote Originally Posted by Pannonian View Post
    The Backroom is the Crackroom.

  29. #119
    has a Senior Member HoreTore's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mass Immigration; No Benefit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Divinus Arma
    What will you do when the population of Britain is comprised in a majority from immigrants from muslim countries who have no interest in British culture?

    What will you do when your political power is eliminated by the immigrants and you no longer have a voice?

    What will you do when you are the minority?

    Don't pretend it can't happen.
    Since most of the immigrants vote as I do, or very close, I won't mind.
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

  30. #120
    Clan Clan InsaneApache's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mass Immigration; No Benefit.

    Quote Originally Posted by HoreTore
    Since most of the immigrants vote as I do, or very close, I won't mind.
    Haha! What a pillock.
    There are times I wish they’d just ban everything- baccy and beer, burgers and bangers, and all the rest- once and for all. Instead, they creep forward one apparently tiny step at a time. It’s like being executed with a bacon slicer.

    “Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy.”

    To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticise.

    "The purpose of a university education for Left / Liberals is to attain all the politically correct attitudes towards minorties, and the financial means to live as far away from them as possible."

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