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Thread: Mini-mod: 250BC start date

  1. #1
    EBII Hod Carrier Member QuintusSertorius's Avatar
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    Default Mini-mod: 250BC start date

    Since I got zero responses over on TWC (which is also pretty dead), I figured I'd give this one a try. Seems to be a lot more active.

    What I want to do is start the game in 250BC, instead of 272BC. Rather than simply changing the start date in the descr_strat.txt, I want a meaningful 250BC start, with accompanying changes in province ownership.

    I've edited the strat before for other mods, so have a basic idea how it works. But there are some specifics for EB (like interaction with scripts) that I'm unsure of, along with some historical info I don't have.

    Why am I doing this?
    1) I'm sick of the conquest of Italy (I only play Romans) and Pyrrhic Wars. I want to start in the midst of the First Punic War in Sicily.
    2) 22 years is some 88 turns, during which things can often go very ahistorical. In the game I'm playing I don't think Pahlava ever really established themselves, and by 215BC were dead. Hopefully they'll be in a stronger position in 250BC.

    It has the advantage of not being too far ahead of the original start - basically a generation. It's also before most of the reform events would kick in, so no trouble there.

    Now what I'm short of is information, primarily:
    1) Where would the factions besides Rome hold at this slightly later start? Ie what provinces would I need to give to whom? Are many of them changed at all (I know technically Epeiros ceased to exist by then, but I'll leave them alone)? I've been struggling to find decent maps, does anyone have any good ones?

    2) Are there any other things I need to consider (eg will those scripted things like the warning about Sicily cause trouble if the Romani already hold Messana?)?

    3) Which is the buildings text file I need for reference to add development stuff and government levels to previously rebel settlements?

    4) Another question is around client rulers; specifically how you create them in the strat? I'm planning to have client rulers in Taras, Rhegion, Bononia, Segesta and Messana, the holdings I'll add to Rome, along with type IV governments. I won't add much by way of development to them; probably a first tier levy barracks and maybe basic roads. Would I be able to simply use the client ruler some of them already have? I remember Rhegion had one, for example.

    5) Another thought, do you have to have your own factional troops to claim a settlement as "yours"? Would locally recruit-able troops make it another faction's? Or does the presence of a client ruler mean it's still yours? How are client rulers represented?

    6) If possible through messing around with who holds what, and possibly how developed they are, I'd like to try to make the following factions stronger: Saka, Sauromatae, Pahlav, Saba. I'd also like to make Makedon and Ptolemaic Egypt weaker. In the case of the latter, would changing their AI behaviour "style" help at all? Give them a less aggressive one? I'm also thinking of giving some of their land to the Sabaen, provided it isn't too ahistorical. Maybe start the Hai at war with the Seleukids to stop them running off north (wishful thinking...).

    7) Are the details of who is at war with whom in the strat as well?

    I don't plan on doing anything severe like mucking around with new factions or units or anything like that, just changing who holds what. I'm also going to put some serious Karthadastim forces on Sicily, along with some Roman ones so there might actually be a First Punic War.

    I'm not going full-on with finding out who the family members for everyone should be at this stage, I'll just age the ones there are 22 years and perhaps throw in some additional ones.
    Last edited by QuintusSertorius; 04-01-2008 at 14:58.
    It began on seven hills - an EB 1.1 Romani AAR with historical house-rules (now ceased)
    Heirs to Lysimachos - an EB 1.1 Epeiros-as-Pergamon AAR with semi-historical houserules (now ceased)
    Philetairos' Gift - a second EB 1.1 Epeiros-as-Pergamon AAR


  2. #2
    EBII Hod Carrier Member QuintusSertorius's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mini-mod: 250BC start date

    Would I be better off going with 260BC given the nightmare I might have with re-aging family members throughout the file? Still be the same settlements for the Romani, but only 12 years to age everyone rather than 22. Fewer family members to add as well.

    The Roman faction leader is 65, if I made him 87 would that crash the game? Would he die on the first click of next turn?

    How do you create children in the strat?
    Last edited by QuintusSertorius; 04-02-2008 at 12:05.
    It began on seven hills - an EB 1.1 Romani AAR with historical house-rules (now ceased)
    Heirs to Lysimachos - an EB 1.1 Epeiros-as-Pergamon AAR with semi-historical houserules (now ceased)
    Philetairos' Gift - a second EB 1.1 Epeiros-as-Pergamon AAR


  3. #3
    Whatever Member konny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mini-mod: 250BC start date

    Yes, that is much more difficult than changing just the date.

    Quote Originally Posted by QuintusSertorius
    2) Are there any other things I need to consider (eg will those scripted things like the warning about Sicily cause trouble if the Romani already hold Messana?)?
    You should delete these parts of the script. Search for the settlement names of towns that changed ownership and check if there is a scripted event that wouldn't make sense with the new owner.

    4) Another question is around client rulers; specifically how you create them in the strat? I'm planning to have client rulers in Taras, Rhegion, Bononia, Segesta and Messana, the holdings I'll add to Rome, along with type IV governments.
    Don't use Level IV governement for AI factions. The AI has no idea of the concept (it is EB not RTW) and can't handle it. Set these towns with Level I government in descr_start, and when you play them and need allied towns for roleplaying, destroy the Level I building on game start and raise a Level IV (takes just two turns).

    5) Another thought, do you have to have your own factional troops to claim a settlement as "yours"? Would locally recruit-able troops make it another faction's?
    No. The units in a Roman settlement are always Roman on game start - regardless if they are legaly Roman or not. Garrisoning these towns with non-Roman units would cause serious troubles, so make sure you only garrison with units that the faction can raise.


    6) In the case of the latter, would changing their AI behaviour "style" help at all? Give them a less aggressive one?
    No, the styles only determind what building will built next and what types of units will be raised.

    7) Are the details of who is at war with whom in the strat as well?
    Yes. End of the file

    Disclaimer: my posts are to be considered my private opinion and not offical statements by the EB Team

  4. #4
    EBII Hod Carrier Member QuintusSertorius's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mini-mod: 250BC start date

    Appreciate the inputs, konny.

    It's been a long time since I played with the descr_strat; does the location of the settlement in the file determine who the owner is (I'm not planning to do anything to the "faction creator" bit - that should stay how it is)? I thought it was the garrison present that did that?

    What I was planning was Greek units in Taras, Rhegion and Messana and Gallic ones in Segesta and Bononia. Local levies, basically.

    I guess your plan of putting type I's in and changing them when I play does give the mod wider accessibility. Means people besides me will actually get a use out of it!

    How likely is the AI to simply come to other arrangements once the game starts in terms of diplomacy? Would the Hai stay at war with the Seleukids, just because I made them at the start, for example?
    It began on seven hills - an EB 1.1 Romani AAR with historical house-rules (now ceased)
    Heirs to Lysimachos - an EB 1.1 Epeiros-as-Pergamon AAR with semi-historical houserules (now ceased)
    Philetairos' Gift - a second EB 1.1 Epeiros-as-Pergamon AAR


  5. #5
    EBII Hod Carrier Member QuintusSertorius's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mini-mod: 250BC start date

    As a completely ancillary project to the above, how difficult would it be to change Epeiros and Koinon Hellenon to the Achaean and Aetolian Leagues? I wouldn't go into mucking around with units and such, probably just making both rosters the same or with even more overlap.

    Forget that, too complicated. More than enough to be doing with changing province ownerships.
    Last edited by QuintusSertorius; 04-07-2008 at 23:11.
    It began on seven hills - an EB 1.1 Romani AAR with historical house-rules (now ceased)
    Heirs to Lysimachos - an EB 1.1 Epeiros-as-Pergamon AAR with semi-historical houserules (now ceased)
    Philetairos' Gift - a second EB 1.1 Epeiros-as-Pergamon AAR


  6. #6
    EBII Hod Carrier Member QuintusSertorius's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mini-mod: 250BC start date

    Right, with 1.1 released, this suddenly takes on some importance for me personally. Because I'd rather not about play out the conquest of Italy all over again. That's 80+ turns I'd prefer not do once more.

    I'm quite willing to wait a week or two for the early bugs and fixes to come out, and in the meantime get my information sorted for this mini-mod.

    Hopefully this also means the people who've been working on 1.1 might have some free thought-space.

    I've realised I probably won't find a grand map for 250BC like this one for 200BC:



    Instead it'll be a series of smaller ones for specific factions. For example I found this one for Armenia/Hayasdan:



    I've got this "world" one from 240BCE:



    Which at least is a little closer to the mark.

    Does anyone have any others?

    I figure Rome and Carthage are easy (Carthage just need a settlement or two extra in Africa and maybe Spain), the Gallic factions I don't think need changing. By the looks of the 240BCE map, some of the kingdoms are relatively unchanged as well.
    It began on seven hills - an EB 1.1 Romani AAR with historical house-rules (now ceased)
    Heirs to Lysimachos - an EB 1.1 Epeiros-as-Pergamon AAR with semi-historical houserules (now ceased)
    Philetairos' Gift - a second EB 1.1 Epeiros-as-Pergamon AAR


  7. #7
    Whatever Member konny's Avatar
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    Default AW: Re: Mini-mod: 250BC start date

    Quote Originally Posted by QuintusSertorius
    It's been a long time since I played with the descr_strat; does the location of the settlement in the file determine who the owner is (I'm not planning to do anything to the "faction creator" bit - that should stay how it is)? I thought it was the garrison present that did that?

    No, the garrison always belongs to the settlement owner. The engine can't know, for example, who should be the owner of unit of Classical Hoplites (what can be raised by every faction) other than by the position of it in descr_strat.

    What I was planning was Greek units in Taras, Rhegion and Messana and Gallic ones in Segesta and Bononia. Local levies, basically.

    Use mercenaries to be on the safe side.

    How likely is the AI to simply come to other arrangements once the game starts in terms of diplomacy? Would the Hai stay at war with the Seleukids, just because I made them at the start, for example?
    That depends on the same calculations as if the war has borken out in-game or by script: If they share a border they will stay at war for a longer time, if they do not they will most likely accept peace very soon.

    Disclaimer: my posts are to be considered my private opinion and not offical statements by the EB Team

  8. #8
    EBII Hod Carrier Member QuintusSertorius's Avatar
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    Default Re: AW: Re: Mini-mod: 250BC start date

    If I can't get a resolution to my CTD issue in my present game, I may revive this. That's if I don't play my migrated-Eperios game first.
    It began on seven hills - an EB 1.1 Romani AAR with historical house-rules (now ceased)
    Heirs to Lysimachos - an EB 1.1 Epeiros-as-Pergamon AAR with semi-historical houserules (now ceased)
    Philetairos' Gift - a second EB 1.1 Epeiros-as-Pergamon AAR


  9. #9

    Default Re: Mini-mod: 250BC start date

    If you want a simpler solution, you could also play up till 250 once and use that save game as a base for future campaigns.

    I would think, however, that after a while, you'll be tired of the Punic Wars, too, and of the Macedonian Wars, etc.

  10. #10
    EBII Hod Carrier Member QuintusSertorius's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mini-mod: 250BC start date

    Well, problem comes when there are new, non-savegame-compatible fixes out. That's why I'd rather start clean, or as is the case here, rejig it so I don't have to do all that again.
    It began on seven hills - an EB 1.1 Romani AAR with historical house-rules (now ceased)
    Heirs to Lysimachos - an EB 1.1 Epeiros-as-Pergamon AAR with semi-historical houserules (now ceased)
    Philetairos' Gift - a second EB 1.1 Epeiros-as-Pergamon AAR


  11. #11

    Default Re: Mini-mod: 250BC start date

    I have an ahistorical what-if campaign as Carthage. I'm manipulating all the factions historically but I'm not sure what I'll do once it would be time for Roman intervention in the East and Gaul and their long gone.

  12. #12
    Member Member Praetor Diego's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mini-mod: 250BC start date

    Quintus, you are still working on the proyect?
    Completed campaigns:
    1.1 Quarthadastim
    1.1 Arverni

    Actually playing:
    1.2 Koinon Hellenon

  13. #13
    Member Member Havok.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Mini-mod: 250BC start date

    This mod seems awesome, too bad i have no clue of scripting things myself =\
    Ser mineiro é, antes de tudo, um estado de espírito.

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