Another episode of cartoons?

[atheotes]

not sure how big this is gonna be....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7317506.stm

couldn't find the video (at work)...

to me it doesnt seem right for person in his positions...definitely not the way to put it!

[Big_John]

video is posted here

(Moderator note: Link is 'spoilered' to prevent accidental clicking by workplace viewers)

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

http://hotair.com/archives/2008/03/27/video-fitna/

pretty much what you'd expect. surprisingly uneventful even. it's basically excerpts of some violent passages from the quran spliced together with 9/11 footage, some other terrorist attack footage, and mullahs or whatever calling for jihads of various sorts. nothing new at all.. which surprised me.. all of the hype around it made me think something new would be revealed or put forward or something.

oh and there's a brief bit where wilders equates nazism and the muslim anti-semitism he includes. and in the end he asks if the netherlands will be like certain islamic societies (specifically regarding the treatment of gays and women), and says islamisation must be stopped.


music is the arab dance from tchaikovsky's nutcracker and aase's death from grieg's peer gynt.

[CrossLOPER]

[Geoffrey S]

To be honest, I couldn't care less. He's got his right to make the film, but I sure as heck have the right to say that the quality of this is below par even when compared to some of the tripe on YouTube. Amateuristic and childish.

[Big_John]

To be honest, I couldn't care less. He's got his right to make the film, but I sure as heck have the right to say that the quality of this is below par even when compared to some of the tripe on YouTube. Amateuristic and childish.

that's what really surprised me. it's more amateurish than "loose change" even.. i mean, what was all the hype about? why was there even any build up? i know several dudes that could have put that thing together in 20 minutes.

[Tribesman]

This quote is good Geoffrey

Amateuristic and childish.

But I like how it fits with Mautitz Bergers appraisal , "the film says a lot more about Wilders than it does about Islam"

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Does anyone else wonder if he deliberately hyped this up to get a violent reaction, and then put out something tame just to laugh at the fanatics protesting?

[HoreTore]

Does anyone else wonder if he deliberately hyped this up to get a violent reaction, and then put out something tame just to laugh at the fanatics protesting?

Never ascribe to intelligence, that which can be explained by incompetence.

EDIT: loved the title on that link of yours, big john:

"Video: “Fitna” now online; Update: Torrent link added; Update: LiveLeak issues statement; Update: Muslim leader shrugs"

[Fragony]

Bwahahaha and they shat every color of the rainnbow in their pants over this, what a terrified bunch of cowards it are. No EMFM, all he said was that he was making a movie, scared people panicked and blew it out of proportions, they must feel kinda silly now, this is just so glorious in it's absolute insignificance.

Triumph des Wilders



pwnd. The only thing that worries me is that they just might track down Wilder's safehouse using the richter magnitude scale.

ps, after all the hype hysteria and cowering apocalypse and doomsday, and us not caring at all, you would almost forget that another movie has been in production, was anounced long before this, made by ex-muslim Ashin Jami and we get to see the prophet shred poor little nineyearold Aischa.

[Big_John]

lol. the danish cartoonist responsible for the thread title is considering a lawsuit against wilders for copyright infringement.

... good job?

can't wait for wilders movie on christianity.. i'm sure it will be a groundbreaking work of breathtaking genius as well. i thought american politicians sucked...

[HoreTore]

made by ex-muslim Ashin Jami and we get to see the prophet shred poor little nineyearold Aischa.

....Child porn...?

Now, I know you have some very liberal politicians in the netherlands, fragony, but...

EDIT: Not that I want to debate that issue again, but here's an idea: try reading some classic literature, like Dumas or Tolstoj, and you'll see 40 year olds doing 10-year old girls regularly...

[Moros]

politicians in general suck. Belgium though did get it's more than fair share.

[Big_John]

....Child porn...?

Now, I know you have some very liberal politicians in the netherlands, fragony, but...

EDIT: Not that I want to debate that issue again, but here's an idea: try reading some classic literature, like Dumas or Tolstoj, and you'll see 40 year olds doing 10-year old girls regularly...

no one builds moralistic systems around nabakov.

[Fragony]

....Child porn...?

Now, I know you have some very liberal politicians in the netherlands, fragony, but...

touche

Ah well all quiet on the western front, told ya, back to business.

[Adrian II]

Bwahahaha and they shat every color of the rainnbow in their pants over this, what a terrified bunch of cowards it are.

For once I totally agree with you.

[Geoffrey S]

But I like how it fits with Mautitz Bergers appraisal , "the film says a lot more about Wilders than it does about Islam"

Perfect description!

[Fragony]

lol the social dhimmicratic party of Denmark compares it to der ewige jude,first godwin is in. What's so bad about it, maybe I should finish watching it. Now can something please explode this is getting boring. Islamic rage boy, where art thou? We are counting on you.

[Dâriûsh]

lol the social dhimmicratic party of Denmark compares it to der ewige jude,first godwin is in. What's so bad about it, maybe I should finish watching it. Now can something please explode this is getting boring. Islamic rage boy, where art thou? We are counting on you.

Heck, I'm buying Faludeh ice desert for everyone if they don't demonstrate and burn flags in Peshawar, Jallalabad, and the other usually quiet and calm places in the world.

[KukriKhan]

In the 'credits', I see co-production and director is listed as: The Scarlet Pimpernel. I guess Mr. Wilders has a pretty high view of himself, saving western civilization from the horde, on our behalf, and all.

[Fragony]

Heck, I'm buying Faludeh ice desert for everyone if they don't demonstrate and burn flags in Peshawar, Jallalabad, and the other usually quiet and calm places in the world.

Hey look what the sjah dragged in, hows life outside Iran? Good to see you here again. Ah let them have their fun, all fake anyway there are no spontanious demonstrations over there. Despite the effort of blowing this up nobody gives a crap over here and over here is what concerns me most.

[Viking]

video is posted here

(Moderator note: Link is 'spoilered' to prevent accidental clicking by workplace viewers)

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

http://hotair.com/archives/2008/03/27/video-fitna/

pretty much what you'd expect. surprisingly uneventful even. it's basically excerpts of some violent passages from the quran spliced together with 9/11 footage, some other terrorist attack footage, and mullahs or whatever calling for jihads of various sorts. nothing new at all.. which surprised me.. all of the hype around it made me think something new would be revealed or put forward or something.

oh and there's a brief bit where wilders equates nazism and the muslim anti-semitism he includes. and in the end he asks if the netherlands will be like certain islamic societies (specifically regarding the treatment of gays and women), and says islamisation must be stopped.


music is the arab dance from tchaikovsky's nutcracker and aase's death from grieg's peer gynt.

Might want to warn that there is a beheading in there, ugh.

[ICantSpellDawg]

Nothing new just like mien kampf was just a book.

What will convince people that there is a problem? What would have to happen? Does everyone live in a vacuum?

I don't live in the Netherlands, I'm just wondering.

[Crazed Rabbit]

More important, IMO, than the film is the reactions to it, specifically by the head of the UN and the EU president:

Slovenia, which holds the rotating EU presidency, said it supported the Dutch government’s position and believes the film does nothing to promote dialogue among religions.

“The European Union and its member states apply the principle of the freedom of speech which is part of our values and traditions. However, it should be exercised in a spirit of respect for religious and other beliefs and convictions,” the Slovenian presidency said in a statement.

Doudou Diène, the Special Rapporteur on contemporary forms of racism, racial discrimination, xenophobia and related intolerance; Asma Jahangir, the Special Rapporteur on freedom of religion or belief; and Ambeyi Ligabo, Special Rapporteur for the promotion and protection of the right to freedom of opinion and expression said the video “illustrates an increasing pattern that associates Muslims exclusively with violence and terrorism.”

The three Special Rapporteurs, who serve in an independent, unpaid capacity and report to the UN Human Rights Council, said it was crucial that governments step up efforts to stop this pattern and to prevent wider incitement to racial and religious hatred.

“While on the one hand, freedom of expression is a fundamental human right that must be respected, it does not extend to include incitement to racial or religious hatred, which is itself clearly a violation of human rights. Public expressions that paint adherents of a particular religion as a threat to peace or global stability are irresponsible,” the trio said in the statement.

The United Nations secretary general Ban Ki-moon also attacked the film.

“I condemn in the strongest terms the airing of Geert Wilders’ offensively anti-Islamic film,” he said in a statement.

“There is no justification for hate speech or incitement to violence. The right of free speech is not at stake here.”

The fact that the EU and UN seem to think that there'd be nothing wrong with banning this film, that doing so would not violate free speech, because not offending people is more important than free speech, does not bode well for civil liberties in Europe and elsewhere.

I think this film has shown how far some will go to accommodate extremists for the sake of multiculturalism and the like.

CR

[Fragony]

I think this film has shown how far some will go to accommodate extremists for the sake of multiculturalism and the like.

CR

Beautifull isn't it

[Geoffrey S]

Apt.

[Tribesman]

oh dear Widers got a reaction , not one he was expecting , he is being sued by the Danish cartoonst who did the bomb/turban mohamed picture
Now of course lots of people have used that image without being sued , but apparently Wilders using it in his epic crapterpiece is just one step too far .

I think this film has shown how far some will go to accommodate extremists for the sake of multiculturalism and the like.

errrrr...no since that doesn't even come into it , if Wilders wanted to make a film about how evil extremists can be then no problem , he could make one about Islamic Jewish or Christian extremists its all the same and all fair game .

[Crazed Rabbit]

errrrr...no since that doesn't even come into it , if Wilders wanted to make a film about how evil extremists can be then no problem , he could make one about Islamic Jewish or Christian extremists its all the same and all fair game .

I never said he made a film just about extremists. You're wrong all the same though - some of the Danish cartoons were directly related to Islamic terrorism (like the bomb in the turban one you mention), not general Islam bashing, and those were condemned. Or are you saying people receive the same reaction in a place like Holland for criticizing Christianity as they do for criticizing Islam?

I'm saying the people I quoted are willing to trample free speech to accommodate extremists.

CR

[Big_John]

does the EU constitution have similar restrictions on speech to the US constitution?

[Tribesman]

I never said he made a film just about extremists.

And that is where he screws up

You're wrong all the same though

Errrrrrrrr....nope .

Or are you saying people receive the same reaction in a place like Holland for criticizing Christianity as they do for criticizing Islam?

Well for a measure of that to be made someone would have to make a film about dutch white supremacists who call themselves Christian and then turn it into an attack on all Christianity .

I'm saying the people I quoted are willing to trample free speech to accommodate extremists.

no , they are willing to accomodate ordinary people , the extremists don't even come into it .

[Adrian II]

The fact that the EU and UN seem to think that there'd be nothing wrong with banning this film, that doing so would not violate free speech, because not offending people is more important than free speech, does not bode well for civil liberties in Europe and elsewhere.

Blah di blah.

Look, your own Presidency said the exact same thing about the Danish cartoons as the EU Presidency has said about the Wilders thingamy. Here is what Dubya's spokesman had to say at the time: "We fully recognize and respect freedom of the press and expression, but it must be coupled with responsibility. Inciting religious or ethnic hatreds in this manner is not acceptable."

Does that mean the freedom of speech is about to be cancelled in the US?

Thought so..