Chapter X: Seizing the Reigns
Originally Posted by TinCow
Brothers,
The days are slipping by faster than I realize. We are only a few short years from the next Chancellorship election. Given the recent unpleasantness in the Diet, I think Matthias would have a better chance at the post than Arnold. I think we should stick with our initial plan for both Matthias and I to run and for me to play the pariah, propelling votes towards my brother. If another serious challenger decides to run, I can always drop out of the race. However, if both Matthias and I announce our candidacies as soon as the Diet session opens, perhaps the already heavy 'competition' will dissuade others from entering. Of course, this will all be academic if our new Kaiser decides to take the post for himself.
On another matter, is there any legislation we should be pursuing in the upcoming session? If so, it may be worthwhile to start planning for it now.
LotharOriginally Posted by AussieGiant
Brothers,
Firstly, I'd like you to begin thinking of ways we can kill Jan von Hamburg.
Second. I agree with you Lothar. If you both come out hard and fast for the election then others will think twice and naturally start to deal with your issues. I would prepare your election points now so you can quickly state them when the proceeding begin.
I think the main legislation is to plug the hole this succession issue is causing. Hans has just written to me about where I and Austria would stand if he were to dispute the words of our late Kaiser.
Thoughts? What does your father think Lothar, Matthias?
ArnoldOriginally Posted by Northnovas
Brothers,
I apologize but had pressing in matters in the Outremer. I was going to reply on the initial topic of new member and was going along with the suggestion of Hans with caution. Upon reviewing the correspondence, the Kaiser's death and the Diet session a lot has been processed.
I think I am up to speed and the matter of Hans as member would not be wise at this time. My decision was Kaiser Siegfried's request that Hans pledge his allegiance to him to know where he stands. When he came to the Diet he talked of Charter Amendments and succession not even acknowledging the Kaiser's request. This man is power hungry and though intrigued at the thought of him being a member I do not think it would be a wise move at this time.
As for scoundrels, Wolfgang Hummel is getting to be an annoyance with his traitorous remarks here in Adana. I will write directly to the Kaiser and Chancellor and let my thoughts be known. Otherwise he maybe a lone charge into the Turkish lines with my crossbowmen behind him. That could be a possibility for young Jan. Anything is possible in the Outremer.
I like the idea of 2 quick names for Chancellor. If the Kaiser does not use his prerogative that may stop anyone else from entering the race, with the possibility of Hans. I will not accept any usurpers and would like the succession issue closed in the next edict voting.
KarlOriginally Posted by OverKnight
Brothers,
I will give some thought to legislation, but nothing occurs to me at the moment.
After monitoring the developments in the Diet, I do not feel it would be wise to support Han's play for the throne. Even if we swung our support behind him, I doubt he has the support needed to pass a CA. I also generally prefer to take the side of an issue that does not have a Hummel supporting it.
I have a concern over my run for Chancellor. I am still only a squire. I thought this would have been rectified by now, but due to incompetent administration, lack of a proper battle and ship-wreck, I have not been knighted. While there is no rule that one has to be a knight to be Chancellor, Electors may have a bias against inexperienced commanders. I will, of course, throw all my efforts into the election, but it is an impediment.
On the positive side, I have managed to emerge from the current mess in the Diet with a reputation as a moderate, which might be appealing to many Electors after a divisive term. I will begin sounding out some Electors to see where I stand.
Of course Siegfried could render this all academic.
Arnold, I know you're exaggerating some of your actions in the Diet to dissuade people from thinking you might be involved in something shady, but I must admit your feud with Jan von Hamburg serves little purpose that I can see. I would be reluctant to aid in his death, as the Reich has already lost many nobles recently, and each loss has been scrutinized. It might draw unwanted attention. I will, however, follow the will of the Brotherhood on this matter.
MatthiasOriginally Posted by AussieGiant
Matthias,
At this point in time you are an ideal candidate. With the Swabian and Franconian houses at each others throat and very little chance an Austrian running for the position I believe we can glean votes from both larger house.
Your father has sent me a note in support and concern over what has happened in the Diet. That has greatly comforted me as Duke Scherer and current Chancellor Fredericus have been completely hostile towards me. You father has restated the bond between our houses is as strong as ever and for that I greatly appreciate his words.
As for my feud. I fear I have done more harm than good at the moment.
I am set on a course that will lead somewhere, god knows what that will be exactly. I don't need any assistance from the Brotherhood so please disregard my prior request.
My feud with Jan was totally his doing and it seems to have polarised much of the nobles, much to my surprise. It seems my actions against the invading Hungarian's has generated some strong views.
I'm not sure how any of you would react to constant insults but I can only think it would be vaguely similar.
Run for Chancellor Matthias. I think we will be surprised at what a moderate can achieve at this election.
ArnoldOriginally Posted by TinCow
Matthias,
I agree that events are making you an ideal candidate for Chancellor. I am doing my best to lay the groundwork for a hostile reaction to my candidacy. I will instantly have all of Franconia and Outremer against me. Regarding your status as a squire, I agree that it is a
weakness. So, let us make efforts not to bring it up during the election. I will not mention it, nor should you. If someone else does, you should respond, but let us see if we can simply let the matter slip by undetected.
LotharOriginally Posted by TinCow
Grand Master,
As requested, I sent a message to my father about his stance on Siegfried's succession to the throne. Here is his response:
LotharOriginally Posted by Stuperman
Lothar
It would appear that Siegfried has the support most of the Diet, including myself although I don't remember declaring my support for him. I would not be totally against returning the Kaisership to Swabia should they seek it, I've never trusted the Franconians totally with their total inability to deal with the poles in any meaningful way. I will talk with Arnold and get his opinion, We've been working hard to keep Bavaria and Austria 'on the same page' as it were. Our two houses must band together, if only to stem the influence of the crowd of Franconians developing, honestly they are like rabbits up north, must
be the long, dark, cold winters.
Your Father Gerhard.Originally Posted by TinCow
Brothers,
The year 1260 is upon us and the Diet will soon open for the next Chancellorship election. Matthias, it is critical that we both proclaim ourselves for the position early.
LotharOriginally Posted by Northnovas
Lothar,
I see we are all thinking like one. I heard the news and was dispatching the news. We must declare our candidates and what will be proposing or supporting for that matter?
KarlOriginally Posted by TinCow
I am preparing my declaration as we speak. However, I am reluctant to make it public until Matthias has spoken first. My speech will surely inflame some passions and may incite some men to run against me unless there is already a 'rational' candidate in the race. That said, I do not wish to wait too long. Hopefully Matthias will announce his candidacy soon and I can follow immediately afterwards.
LotharOriginally Posted by OverKnight
The Diet session has not opened yet, I would not want to violate protocol by announcing too early.Originally Posted by TinCow
Brothers,
Here is a draft of my candidacy speech. I have tried to make it seem like a legitimate campaign speech, but still radical enough to alienate sufficient Electors to instantly lose me the election. Please let me know if you think it is not sufficiently inflammatory. Again I say this is designed to follow after Matthias' speech.
------
Electors, the Reich is a pitiful shadow of its once glorious self. Our borders exist in name only, with hostile armies crossing into our lands at will to loot and pillage. Our armies are weakened and even those decent forces that have been assembled are insufficient to protect our vast lands. Money and men are constantly siphoned off from the Homelands to aid ridiculous foreign enterprises that benefit an elite few Electors. The Reich needs a Chancellor who cares only for the good of the German peoples and who sacrifices all else to maintain and increase the prosperity of the Reich. Electors, the Reich needs a man like me!
I hereby declare my candidacy for the Chancellorship. Under my control, I promise you that foreign interests will no longer take priority over the Reich. Outremer is a folly and a failure. Its reason for existing was to protect the Pope's new seat in Jerusalem, yet the 'Crusaders' were not even capable of doing that. They did not even bother to send an army to assist the Pope when he was assaulted by the Saracens. Now the Pope is dead and Jerusalem has been sacked. I see no further reason to expend our resources to prop up this failed enterprise.
I am not so ignorant as to abandon those lands, but nor shall I permit them to receive aid from the Homelands. Under my Chancellorship, not a single Imperial or Ducal soldier will journey East to aid Outremer. Furthermore, no funds will be allocated to construction or recruitment in Outremer beyond what those provinces earn themselves. If the lands are truly valuable, surely they can afford to pay for their own defenses. If they cannot, then they are a drain on the Reich and will not be missed when they fall to the Eastern hordes. I will gladly make the Imperial fleets available to evacuate any Elector in Outremer who sees the truth in my words and wishes to flee before the inevitable fall.
I note with pride that the legislation for the "Teutonic Crusade" has expired and I urge all Electors to vote against any attempts to resurrect it. However, even if new legislation is passed, I shall not permit this ridiculous Franconian expedition to Russia to receive Imperial aid. I respect the independence of the Houses and I will not stop Franconian generals from leading Franconian troops off to war, but I will not allow a single Imperial florin to be spent to support them. If they insist on this foolish endeavor, they will have to do with the forces that are already assembled. No provision will be made for mercenary recruitment along the way. I will not line the pockets of Rus mercenaries when that money could be better spent elsewhere. If the 'Teutonic Crusaders' find themselves in peril as a result, then they have only themselves to blame for their idiotic ambitions.
What will I do with all the money saved by these measures? I shall invest it in the Reich. Our peoples have recently been unhappily subjected to cruel taxation. I shall appease them by prioritizing the construction of brothels and drinking houses. Churches are all well and good, but men need room to breathe from the constraints of preachers and priests. I will also ensure that the Household Armies are strengthened to a degree never before seen in the Reich's history. Under my Chancellorship, no army will cross our borders without being immediately challenged by a large, professional force. There will be more than enough commands for every Knight who seeks glory and profit!
In short, Electors, I am a man of the people. I promise security and prosperity for the Homelands the likes of which you have never seen. Vote for me and I will deliver all I have said and more.Originally Posted by AussieGiant
I think that will do it Lothar.
Matthias looks like a very viable option at the moment.
Well done.Originally Posted by Northnovas
Brothers,
I mentioned my correspondence with Ansehelm. Here is my reply.
A little subtle support for our candidate.Dear Ansehelm,
I am not one for these background deals but seeing your comments in the Diet and the situation in the Outremer. I would be favourable to your Crusade if you are to mine. I think this young Matthais maybe the man to support our causes.
KarlOriginally Posted by TinCow
Brothers,
I have made my speech, following Matthias'. I made a few more spontaneous remarks, all of them critical, and slightly insulting, to Matthias. I made sure not to attack his arguments, for I know I have a way with words and perhaps I would strike a chord with some Electors when that is exactly the opposite of my intentions. So, I have taken the "low road" and resorted to personal attacks. That should make others regard me in an even lower light, elevating Matthias at the same time.
Matthias, I urge you to respond to me, but take the "high road" and address my policies, not my person. If you continuously do this while I repeatedly attack your person, I believe our plan is guaranteed to succeed.
We must all gather to celebrate, brothers! We have the Diet playing right into our hands. The only way we can possibly lose now is if Kaiser Siegfried exercises his right to the Chancellorship. Hopefully the presence of a 'good' candidate like Matthias will deter him.
LotharOriginally Posted by TinCow
Brothers,
My father has recently sent Matthias and I a note regarding current events. He has stated that he will support Matthias in the election. I made sure to encourage this in my response, without explaining the real reason. Though we are still in the early days of the campaign, Matthias' victory seems almost assured.
This is not the reason I am writing, though. My father also made comments about the coming issue regarding the Kaiser's heir. I include his words, verbatim, as reference:
I interpret these words to mean that my father will support Hans in his attempt to take the Imperial throne from Siegfried. I believe that it is absolutely crucial that we do not come out on the wrong side of this issue. If we become certain that one side will win, we should contact them and fully support them in any way possible. If we cannot tell which side will win, I believe we should refrain from interfering in any way with the events. Better to be totally uninvolved than to have a Kaiser who sees us as an enemy. That said, if it is to be 5 person vote and my father and Duke Scherer are for Hans, then Arnold could guarantee Hans' victory with his own vote. This assumes that a simple majority vote would be required, something I cannot verify to be true. It also assumes that we would even prefer Hans to Siegfried.Hans has told me that he plans on contesting the Kaisership through a Ducal council. Assuming that the Swabians vote for themselves, and the Franconians do the same, that leaves Arnold, Myself, and King Sailer (I'm assuming) with the swing votes. A large opportunity to say the least, I would ask though that you avoid publicizing this until it has come closer to fruition.
What are your opinions on the Kaiser issue, brothers?
LotharOriginally Posted by AussieGiant
Brothers,
Duke Steffen and I have been discussing this at length.
We see this Ducal review as an opportunity to vote as a block together. Essentially we would wait until the other three vote and then cast the deciding two votes to ensure a clear winner. We both doubt the other two dukes and Sailer would vote together.
I've personally stated that I would support a review to ensure we have a clearly supported Kaiser.
What this would also do my Brothers is potentially have one of us as Chancellor and both Duke Steffen and myself in the favour of the new Emperor. With a review process we would both be entitled to leverage our support on the winning Emperor.
Thoughts?
ArnoldOriginally Posted by TinCow
Very shrewd, Grand Master. I must admit that I am proud to see that my father is capable of such grand political maneuvers. The question simply appears to be which man would give us greater benefit as Kaiser? In truth, I do not know. Siegfried is a Franconian and the idea of giving that house even more power terrifies me. However, we have always been wary of allowing Hans to gain more power, and now he stand at the brink of achieving the ultimate position of status in the Reich. If we give him the throne, he will also be guaranteed another term as Chancellor. I am too divided over the matter to provide an opinion.
LotharOriginally Posted by AussieGiant
It matters not who it is but merely that he owes us his position either by confirming it at the Ducal level in the case of Siegfried or handing it to Hans if not.
I personally would being suggesting to your father that re reconfirm Siegfried.
I'm inclined to get this tabled as soon as possible.Originally Posted by AussieGiant
Word has reached me that Sailer has named Lord Zirn as the next King of Outremer!!
Our time in drawing near!!! Bwwahhha Ahha Ahhh!!!Originally Posted by TinCow
Ah, the news gets better and better every hour. I must request that Conrad Salier be slighted in some manner in the upcoming term. Nothing serious, just enough to let me sneer at him knowingly in the Diet.
Speaking of this, we should start to plan what exactly we will do with our new found power. Matthias' term must certainly be most competent. We are here to save the Reich, not destroy it. However, I firmly believe that a strong demonstration of our power is in order. We will soon control the entire Reich. Perhaps when the election is over, it will be time to make our existence known and to show that we have the power to make life very difficult for our enemies.
LotharOriginally Posted by AussieGiant
Once Zirn is King of Outremer, you are Duke of Bavaria and Matthias is Chancellor it might be time to make our power known....but we must wait for that time my brothers.Originally Posted by OverKnight
Brothers,
I too feel a great deal of satisfaction at the current turn of events. I salute Lothar whose plan is working perfectly. I had my doubts, I thought Siegfried or a Franconian, hell even Hans, would run and ruin our gambit. Yet it came out just as you said. I'm also impressed by Karl's ability to subtly influence events in Outremer. Congratulations on your appointment as heir by the way. My efforts to truly impress Salier have failed, I think he views me as more of a polite version of Lothar who happens to agree with his goals, but his aversion has lead him to promote another of our order. Arnold, your sideshow with Jan has distracted the Diet from truly analyzing the facts concerning two Bavarians running, and your machinations with my Father could make us even more powerful.
You have all done great work, I am proud to be in your company. Yet, we must be cautious. We thought we were on top of the world when we had Ulrich Hummel elevated against all odds, but we quickly learned the error of our ways. We should all feel pride, but we should not allow it to turn to hubris. We have talked about showing our power and smiting our enemies. I have no objection to a few subtle moves against those who have wronged us, but an overt demonstration of our power will lead to awkward questions. We must remember that we are in this for the duration, not just this term. A foundation must be laid during my term, so that one of you can succeed me as Chancellor. If we strike too strongly or blatantly, we could endanger our continued influential role in guiding the Reich and keeping it safe from fools and petty dictators.
I believe I know how we might knock Salier down a peg. He has yet to engage the Mongols, while every General around him has. Either events have worked against him, or he is reluctant to test his skills against the Horse Lords. If I become Chancellor he will have his battle against them. I will command the King of Outremer to defend his realm. He could be successful, but the other alternatives could harm his reputation. He could pass the command onto another, such as Elberhard, he could be defeated, or he could refuse outright and hide behind the walls of Aleppo. Odds are he will suffer some sort of humiliation. Then you will get your chance to mock him Lothar.
I will also attempt, if possible, to have Karl play a key role in the Crusade. I intend to be in the Crusade myself, but unless I have a battle under another's command before then, I might not be able to command it due to my status as a Squire. I have no qualms about not admitting my lack of a knighthood while running, but it will come to light at some point. Perhaps you could assist in getting me knighted Karl? You are in Adana, and you would be the first Crusader I would meet.
I am inclined to let Ansehelm have his crusade without much interference. I will follow the letter of the law, but I will not go out of my way to aid him. He has proven useful, and Franconian unity has already been fractured, no need to give them an excuse to unite again. Grand Master, you might want to tone down your invective against Jan, if you go too far, his fellow House members might support him again. Surely his isolation and irrelevance in the Diet is vengeance enough? No need to make him a martyr, let him twist in the wind.
We have done great things Brothers, but we must not become complacent or overconfident.
MatthiasOriginally Posted by Northnovas
Brothers,
Very well said Matthias. We have been very fortunate, I do not think it could have gone any better. The Diet session with Arnold and Jan von Hamburg was unfortunate but it did serve our means in the end. However, a simple apology by Jan and he could have moved on. I am not sure of the principles the young man is referring too? Though I think the Duke of his House should have spoken sooner.
Yes, caution is the key and let the election play out. The issues and candidates are out there hopefully no other issues will arise before the votes. Though I do not know what Hans is up to but he seems momentarily distracted.
I think you are most correct Matthias to say the hardest work will be being subtle when you are Chancellor. It will be key to accomplish our goals while in power without the knowledge of the unenlightened. How many terms could we go? My son may eventually learn of our society to carry the secrets on. The victory will be savored briefly. I was not here on the first plan with Hummel but it shows what can happen when we think things are going our way. At least this time we put ourselves in position to call the shots.
What will be important is to continue to carry the ruse to prevent suspicious. There will be unpopular decisions and we will have to be pro or con depending on the situation.
When you arrive in Adana Matthias I will be waiting and we will make sure that we get your properly right to command. It's unfortunate that I had to share teaching Wolfgang; such a disappointment.
We will not be complacent nor overconfident. There are too many great things to accomplish for the Reich.
KarlOriginally Posted by TinCow
You speak sense, brothers. I confess that I simply have an urge to see the looks on their faces when they find out what we have done. Though gratifying, it is neither wise nor tactically sound.
The question then becomes exactly what shall we do? I believe we must stick to our principles when ruling the Reich. We must do all to benefit the Reich, including attacking internal opponents who are harming the Reich, and breaking or manipulating the law if it is for the greater good. So, let us start simply by creating a list of who and what is currently hindering the Reich. Please add names and ideas to this list as you think of them. Please note that this is a simply list of areas where we may wish to exercise our power, not a complete list of everything we must do.
Electors:
Ansehelm von Kastilien: Knows of our existence and spurned us. While, few people seem to pay much attention to him, that will not last when he becomes Duke.
Hans: As stated many times before, he is a very powerful man and can threaten our own grip on the Reich.
Jan von Hamburg: His open hostility to the Grand Master is most unwelcome.
Wolfgang Hummel: No man should be permitted to rebel against the Reich, at least a Reich that we control. He must be brought back and humbled or disposed of.
Franconia as a whole: They are too strong and need to be diminished. Perhaps a death or two on the Moscow Crusade could be arranged. If not, I would suggest that their lands receive very low priority for new building constructions. Perhaps none. They have more than they need to defend themselves effectively, so we would not be putting their citizens at risk by doing so.
Legal Issues:
Jan's Proposed No-Execution Amendment: This is ridiculous. Even the Lord saw fit to cut down entire races when it was for the greater good. His legislation is restraining and shortsighted. We must ensure that it is not passed.
Edict 11.6: I do not believe that Franconia needs any more power. Denying them further provinces is one way to achieve this.
The Emperor: The position of Emperor has many significant powers that are outside our control. This cannot be allowed to continue. If we cannot have a Brother as Emperor, we must have the Emperor beholden to us. I know that Arnold is already working on this. I believe we should contact whichever contender he chooses and make it known that he sits the throne only because we willed it.
LotharOriginally Posted by Northnovas
Lothar,
What you suggested is what I was thinking of where do we go. It will
be work planning administration then trying to get in. Following your lead.
Karl
He is known to be vocal and most of his ranting goes unnoticed. I say let him go on his Crusade and see what happens.Electors:
Ansehelm von Kastilien: Knows of our existence and spurned us. While, few people seem to pay much attention to him, that will not last when he becomes Duke.
This man worries me. I don't know how he has accumulated his power base. I would carefully watch this man I think once he is the Outremer he may scheme to build his power.Hans: As stated many times before, he is a very powerful man and can threaten our own grip on the Reich.
I think this individual is troubled by his ideas. I would recommend a low key approach by the Grand Master. It will be a matter of time before he could clash with another Elector.Jan von Hamburg: His open hostility to the Grand Master is most unwelcome.
Agreed!, I am embarrassed that he was associated with my victories.Wolfgang Hummel: No man should be permitted to rebel against the Reich, at least a Reich that we control. He must be brought back and humbled or disposed of.
Agreed, they will be too busy fighting they may forget their building queues and notice that nothing is being build or the minimum like religious or economic buildings that will benefit the populace and the Reich.Franconia as a whole: They are too strong and need to be diminished. Perhaps a death or two on the Moscow Crusade could be arranged. If not, I would suggest that their lands receive very low priority for new building constructions. Perhaps none. They have more than they need to defend themselves effectively, so we would not be putting their citizens at risk by doing so.
I have politely made a public statement to him on the topic. He is so demoralized that he will not introduce it in this session because of the backlash.Legal Issues:
Jan's Proposed No-Execution Amendment: This is ridiculous. Even the Lord saw fit to cut down entire races when it was for the greater good. His legislation is restraining and shortsighted. We must ensure that it is not passed.
There are no seconds on it yet but if they are going to Russia they do not need this settlement.Edict 11.6: I do not believe that Franconia needs any more power.
Denying them further provinces is one way to achieve this.
It would also be humorous if they were clueless of what was keeping them in power. Though a feeler out there to let them know there is a power behind the throne would be a consideration.The Emperor: The position of Emperor has many significant powers that are outside our control. This cannot be allowed to continue. If we cannot have a Brother as Emperor, we must have the Emperor beholden to us. I know that Arnold is already working on this. I believe we should contact whichever contender he chooses and make it known that he sits the throne only because we willed it.Originally Posted by OverKnight
Brothers,
If Siegfried's claim to the throne is rejected, it is obvious that Hans will be the Kaiser. I have little to judge Siegfried on, but I would guess I'd prefer his rule over Hans's.
I suggest we let the threat to Siegfried grow for now, but the Voice could contact him and offer his assistance. If it is accepted, then we will pull our support from CA 11.1 and watch it collapse. Such a sudden failure would show the Kaiser our power, and that he would be wise to accommodate us. Perhaps we have someone in mind to be King of Outremer? Why be heir, Karl, when you can be the man himself?
There are so many plots and backroom deals this session, it would be difficult for anyone to untangle the knot and trace anything back to us.
I agree with the list you sent Lothar, though as Karl pointed out, many of the people and legislation don't need our intervention to fail.
You have also done fine job of scaring the hell out of the Electors. Salier has contacted me to express his support, and is engaged in back room dealings of his own. Franconia, Swabia and the rest of Outremer appear to back me as well. I might even suggest having Arnold and the Austrians, unless already pledged, vote against me, it would serve to cover our tracks.
MatthiasOriginally Posted by TinCow
Indeed, I have not had to lift a finger to propel them all towards you. I have not approached a single person via back channel methods nor have I even requested support from anyone. It would certainly look proper for Arnold to support me, but it would also blatantly link him to me. If he backs a candidate that is certain to lose, he is clearly bound to me by some other link. In contrast, if no one votes for me but myself, then it will be impossible for anyone to link another Elector to the Brotherhood by the voting results. It would certainly look natural if Arnold voted for me, but would that serve our secrecy best? Perhaps by obtaining no other votes whatsoever, those few who suspect me of being in a secret order may begin to believe that the order has a membership of one!
LotharOriginally Posted by TinCow
Brothers,
With the election victory all but certain, we should turn our attention to the issue of the Kaiser. If I remember correctly, Kaiser Siegfried was the preference of Duke Steffen and Duke Arnold. Therefore, I suggest that we contact Kaiser Siegfried in private and inform him that the Illuminati will back him and ensure that he emerges from this 'crisis' unscathed, even if it via a simply majority vote and Hans introduces damning evidence. We need not even ask for anything in return. Simply having the Kaiser aware that we exist and know that we have aided him will pay off in the future, as he will be more willing to deal with us.
LotharOriginally Posted by OverKnight
Brothers,
I concur.Originally Posted by Northnovas
Brothers,
I agree Lothar that a discreet contact to let him know there is support and we ask nothing in return.
I am unsure of the damning evidence and will not support any legislation to remove or review Siegfried position.
KarlOriginally Posted by TinCow
Brothers,
I shall wait to contact the Kaiser until we hear from the Grand Master. I would not want to initiate this, only to find out that he and Duke Steffen had come to other arrangements.
LotharOriginally Posted by AussieGiant
Right you plotting little den of thieves!!
1) I'm inclined to say we all vote for Matthias. A landslide is a landslide in politics and Arnold and Lothar can't be seen to be entirely up each others bottoms even when faced with totally extremist policies :)
2)Both Gerhard and myself do not in fact want Hans to win. As stated previously all we want is Siegfried beholden to us for ensuring his legitimacy is upheld by the "council of five". We have agreed to avoid any outward requests of payment as it would be a better move to approach the new Kaiser with a little bit of panache. Like wise I also don't think having the brotherhood approach the Kaiser to support him outwardly would be a good move. He would then assume some of the Dukes are part of our order already.
I want to ensure the power of the Dukes is strengthened as the Kingdom of Outremer has become dangerously powerful without CA 11.4 passing this session.
Unless someone has a better idea that is my view.
ArnoldOriginally Posted by AussieGiant
Brothers,
It is nearly time for voting. I believe we should discuss how we wish to vote to ensure we do not violate our own charter.
This session is complex and convoluted.
I also think we should work out what "pressure" we wish to bring to bear on certain points.
Lothar, I hate to do this to you but can you draw up a voting plan and "pressure" tactics?
Also brothers, we need a fifth member...begin thinking on this now.
Grand Master.Originally Posted by OverKnight
Brothers,
I am working on a list of edicts and recommendations on how we should vote, I will send it when it is complete. As for pressure tactics, Lothar is the master of that and I will leave it to him. All I will say is that we have accomplished most of what we wanted, let's not queer the deal by getting heavy handed.
Also if any of you have specific requests for movement orders and such, please let me know. As Chancellor, I will do my best to fulfill them.
My initial thoughts:
Lothar will marry Lyse von Salza as soon as possible. If Siegfried tries to interfere, I will plead that his messenger arrived too late. I will be, after all, respecting the last wishes of Kaiser Jobst.
Grand Master, I will endeavor to find you a wife, but this is hardly a typical task for a Chancellor. I did not envision being a "Madam" when joining the Brotherhood.
Karl, you will be taking part on the Crusade to Jerusalem. In fact, if I can't get knighted, you will be leading the Crusade.
MatthiasOriginally Posted by OverKnight
Brothers,
Here is a list of the legislations and my notes on each of them. To try to impose some order I have split the legislation into three sections, general legislation, legislation that effects Outremer and legislation concerning the succession.
General Legislation
*Edict 11.3
Note: Lothar will oppose this, so I will support it. King Salier supports this measure in a horse trade, so Karl should vote yes. Arnold has a free vote.
*Edict 11.4
Note: Uh. . .We better not piss off the Grand Master, vote yes.
*Edict 11.5
Note: We should all vote for this, at worst it will be seen as horse trade between Austria and Bavaria.
*Edict 11.6
Note: I do not wish to extend our borders like this. Ansehelm doesn’t even support so there won’t be fall out if we oppose it.
*Edict 11.7
*Edict 11.8
Note: We should all vote for this, at worst it will be seen as a trade for Bran.
*Edict 11.11
Note: This will be seen as one of those “common sense” edicts that no one will analyze, let’s vote yes.
*Charter Amendment 11.5
Note: If we all vote yes, we’ll just be following the bidding of our Dukes.
Charter Amendment 11.7
Note: This is a legitimate concern of mine, I could use another second. However, if we have reached an agreement with Siegfried I’d be willing to withdraw it.
*Charter Amendment 11.8
Note: There are enough variations on this where we can all oppose it for different reasons. Karl might want to vote yes if he wishes to impress Salier.
Outremer Edicts
*Edict 11.1
Note: Lothar is a no, Karl and I are a yes, and Arnold has a free vote.
*Charter Amendment 11.3
Note: I’d say the same as above.
*Charter Amendment 11.4
Note: This is where it gets complicated. Karl should vote against, Lothar for it. Now if we want to weaken Outremer as a voting bloc, I could finagle a way to justify my vote for it, i.e. Salier is not the only one making back room deals for me. That would be more difficult for Karl if he wishes to stay in Salier’s good graces. Arnold has a free vote depending on our goals.
This raises an interesting question. We have brothers in Outremer, should we keep it strong because we’re there, or weaken it because we will have two Dukes as brothers? Let me know what you think, but this vote could earn me some grief if I vote yes.
*Charter Amendment 11.6
Note: Again, what to do on this one is cloudy. Karl should be a yes, I could swing either way, Lothar should be a no and Arnold has a free vote depending on whatever deals we’ve made or if we expect Karl to be the next King.
Succession Edicts
Note: Our votes in this section will most likely depend on the deals you have all made that I don’t know about, whether Siegfried is friendly or a neutral and our established suspicion of Hans.
*Edict 11.9
Note: See above. We could just free our votes so a pattern couldn’t be seen. It’s poorly worded, unanimous for confirmation or rejection? My head hurts.
Edict 11.10:
Note: I’ve started drinking by this point, someone just tell me how to vote.
*Charter Amendment 11.1
Note: Again, Grandmaster, you seem most involved in this. How should we vote?
*Charter Amendment 11.2
Note: This is a common sense precaution we could all vote for without raising suspicion.
I hope this clarifies things a bit.
MatthiasOriginally Posted by TinCow
I agree with all you have said Matthias, and will vote accordingly. You have stated that you have some confusion on a few issues, so I will state my opinion on those specific edicts/amendments.
*Charter Amendment 11.4*
I truly believe that this amendment is of significant importance to us. Our membership will never be large enough to simply muscle through legislation, therefore we will rely on backroom deals and subterfuge. However, we must still make the most of the few direct votes we have, for those votes themselves are a strong part of our negotiating power. This legislation does one thing above all else: it makes the Dukes very strong. As you note, even though we have only 4 members, we will soon have 2 Dukes. Therefore I believe that strengthening the Dukes will aid us more in the long run than it will hurt us.
In addition, this Amendment will actually give the Illuminati slightly greater power over the Diet than we had before. Arnold, and eventually I, will gain +1 each, while Karl and Matthias will lose 1. That is an even break. However, for all Unenlightened, that makes an additional +2 for the remaining Dukes and a -4 for the loss from Crusader Counts. So, the Illuminati's voting power remains the same and the Unenlightened as a group become less powerful. I suggest that if Karl becomes King of Outremer, we pass similar legislation increasing the influence of that position to +2.
So, I urge all Brothers to find a way to vote yes on this. At very least, abstain on it if you cannot do otherwise. Matthias and Karl can both say that they were ordered to vote yes by their Dukes. That is reasonable and fair, as you both still the vassals of your Dukes.
*Charter Amendment 11.6*
I do not see any major problems with this legislation, whether it passes or not. The King of Outremer is no so powerful that being able to keep him in power or remove him from it is necessary to our maneuvering. If I had to take a side, I would say that it is move favorable to us, since it requires only 2 Dukes (which we will soon have) and the Emperor to impeach, so we can remove the King with no outside support other than the Kaiser. Perhaps that would be useful.
*Succession Legislations*
Since Duke Gerhard and Duke Arnold are in agreement on this matter, I believe it would be best for the rest of us to be seen to be following their lead. Matthias, you and I should vote as our father does. Karl should vote as Arnold does. In any case, I expect that this will result in us all voting the same.
LotharOriginally Posted by OverKnight
Brothers,
Let me review some of the possible candidates for induction. Some we have considered before, but I include them for completeness.
Friedrich Scherer
Pros: Ambitious, Swabian, could be offered a French territory or two to help us
Cons: Has endangered Matthias by speaking semi-publicly of a backroom deal, seems focused on territorial gain
Athalwolf von Salza
Pros: Young, father was Kaiser, a Swabian
Cons: Unknown quantity
Hans
Pros: Powerful, ex-Chancellor, a Swabian
Cons: Arrogant, questionable loyalty to us, past clashes with Brothers
Elberhard
Pros: Skilled General, influential, a Swabian
Cons: None, but doesn't seem interested.
Ansehelm von Kastilien
Pros: Future Duke, a Franconian, has moderated his views lately, best way to stop further leaks is to initiate him
Cons: Rejected us in the past, talks too much, a Franconian
Peter von Kastilien
Pros: Brotherhood has considered him before, a Franconian, has aided us
Cons: Might be too idealistic for secret society, too talkative
Jan von Hamburg
Pros: Differs with other Franconians, a Crusader
Cons: Active feud with Grandmaster, too idealistic, outspoken
Sigismund von Mahren
Pros: Knows when to change his vote, can keep a secret
Cons: Too idealistic, one Austrian too many?
Brothers, not one of them steps out as an ideal candidate. As Lothar has proposed Hans as an unorthodox candidate, I would suggest Ansehelm. Yes, he has rejected us, but he might respond better to a different presentation of our goals. Perhaps if we reduced the theatrics and elevated the patriotism, we might have him. He is powerful and age and responsibility have moderated his views.
If this batch is not satisfactory, we might wait for the underage nobles. I would be interested to see who comes on the scene, they will be ambitious and might be looking for a hand up.
What do you all think?
MatthiasOriginally Posted by AussieGiant
You're right Matthias, none of them really stand out.
I think we are going to have to bide our time and see if something falls out of the trees on this one.
As for your legislation assessment, then firstly well done. Secondly we are having way too many edicts and CA's.
We must try and solve this for the next session.
As the future chancellor Matthias you could probably make that quite clear as you begin your term.
As for the Ducal voting privileges, then I have made myself clear. I believe crusade counts should not essentially have the same influence as Dukes.
We must vote for that, and it's not due to me being a Duke I can tell you. It because what is balanced and correct.
ArnoldOriginally Posted by TinCow
Brothers,
Matthias' summary of possible Brotherhood candidates is very accurate. I must personally say that I do not think Ansehelm is a good choice. He is Steward of Franconia and appears likely to be the future Duke, but he cannot even keep his own House in order. The Illuminati must consist of only the most competent and skilled men, to whom scheming and double-dealing come as second nature. Any less competent men will make us vulnerable and risk harm to our future plans. Furthermore, Ansehelm's weakness as Duke could actively work in our favor. If he continues to divide Franconia's voting bloc with his weakness, one of our main opponents will be weakened.
Duke Scherer is indeed an interesting man to consider. He certainly has demonstrated the ability to deal and conspire on multiple occasions. However, he is already powerful enough and may reject us simply on that basis. I would prefer not to have to deal with another rejection by a recruit, especially if it risks alienating a man with the power and capabilities of Duke Scherer. I would suggest a more subtle approach to gaining influence in Swabia, by approaching one of their younger members. I am very curious to see what kind of man Athalwolf von Salza turns out to be.
LotharOriginally Posted by Northnovas
Brothers,
I see the list is extensive and some excellent points made. I know the need of a fifth is important and I see there are some young nobles coming up. I would recommend that we observe these young fellows and approach them on their arrival. Nothing could be better then a young ambitious noble and not getting the avenue to express himself unless we offered that way.
The election is complete the first phase is done. We are in control and therefore can be selective of who we need. I must say Lothar's suggestion of Hans still intrigues me. Possible his time in the Outremer with Matthias and I can give us a chance to evaluate.
As Matthias mentioned he has not been knighted. What I would look for is any Turks moving around Adana and we attack to clear out the region before the Crusade. If I have to lead then I will be most honoured and Matthias will be my right hand to Jerusalem.
Congratulations on your victory Chancellor Matthias Steffan.
KarlOriginally Posted by AussieGiant
Brothers,
Well done on the win and I mean that for everyone. It was a group effort and it was an amazing result.
I believe we can do this again with an Arnold vs. Zirn ticket in the next election.
So...the new recruits are going to have to wait until we find someone we can really trust. Hans is not viable in my view. I've had more than enough private dealings with him to know he would use us for his own ends.
Chancellor Matthias, please wait for Sigismund’s orders for the AHA. He seems a little distracted with his celebrations. As for myself I have posted my movements and military orders in the Chancellors reporting thread.
Lothar, well done on creating the most impressive mandate a Chancellor has had. No one has voted for you.
ArnoldOriginally Posted by TinCow
HAH! If it was not a sign of absolute success, I would almost be bothered that not a single Elector voted for me. I suspect I have a long career as the Reich's political Bogeyman ahead of me. I can probably repeat my election performance in the future, if need be.
As a personal favor, I would very much like to see that Florence is allocated sufficient funds to help me pursue my desired construction projects as quickly as possible. I hope that my workers will never be idle during the upcoming term. Indeed it seems reasonable that all Brothers should receive top priority on construction during this term, unless money is essentially required for Imperial defense and cannot be spared for construction. I am already discussing design plans on a large palace of pleasure, but the construction of more common inns and taverns will help me to perfect the work. It is my intention to build a secret underground meeting hall for the Illuminati into this Florentine Pleasure Palace. I will also create storehouses and small living quarters in the facility, so that we might have a safe refuge to retreat to in the event of a crisis. Of course, the ale and whores will be nice as well...
On another note, when it comes to giving brothers benefits and hindering our enemies, I encourage Matthias to be a bit absent-minded in his reporting to the Diet. For instance, no one will detect favoritism in construction if you happen to leave one or two structures out of your report each year. Nor will they be likely notice that our enemies have been sidelined until several years after it has occurred, if you forget to mention it in your reports. Of course, such omissions would only occur because you were so busy that you became forgetful...
LotharOriginally Posted by AussieGiant
Lothar,
Because of the landslide that is why I wanted to say it was a team effort. You were in fact too good in a certain way. Next time I propose Zirn to run against you.
I like the Palace and the facilities. I have been wondering when to call our first conclave and a location has always been a small problem.
Of course Matthias we can have a certain area for you and Zirn if some of the facilities are not to your liking.
I like the way you think Lothar. I would assume having one of the Brotherhood as chancellor would bring some benefits. I don't want to place you in an awkward position Matthias but anything you feel comfortable with will suffice.
ArnoldOriginally Posted by OverKnight
Matthias,
I also support the Grandmasters words. Do what you are comfortable with
to carry out your duties.
Lothar mentions to be absent minded, you can set the tone for reports and
not ever detail needs to be mentioned if it is questioned. " I forgot, will
get on it." This is much different then the Hummel situation.
We can actually concentrate on other matters knowing the overall
situation is being well taken care of.
Karl
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