Quintus Sertorius' Guide to Conduct Becoming of a True Roman (Redux for EB)

[J.Alco]

There's one thing about the formation system that bugs me. Obviously EB is still, at the end of it all, a game and it's impossible to be 100% accurate in a game but I've always felt that replicating the Quincux in the way shown above makes the formation appear more like a sieve than a firm battle-line. I remember reading that a Roman republican battle-line would be arranged thus (this is just a quick example):

Ally---Hast---Hast---Ally
---Ally---Hast---Hast---Ally

and so on and so forth for the 2nd and 3rd lines. Meaning that when the enemy line came closer to the Roman army the line would re-arrange itself thusly:

Ally-Ally-Hast-Hast-Hast-Hast-Ally-Ally

I'm wondering, is it possible to simulate this historical unit composition in EB in the following manner:

Ally---Hast
---Hast---Ally

And stretch out the units so that they cover the same ground as when the units are seperated as in the example above. Thus when the enemy army comes close, a little repositioning results in:

Ally-Hast-Hast-Ally

Is this realistically possible? Or would it result be that the units would turn out far too thin and stretched out to be effective in close combat? Would it even be worth the trouble?

[QuintusSertorius]

Re-arranging your formation on contact with the enemy is a recipe for chaos and defeat. It took hours just to line up in the quincunx in the first place. I agree with Goldsworthy when he says the Romans fought in the quincunx, with the gaps in it. In any case, we don't have enough units to collapse lines on contact.

In real life most lines weren't literal solid lines, there were gaps between units because an unbroken one was impossible to hold when marching, it's just that the spaces in a Roman line were bigger than those other peoples might have.

Given the limitations of how many units you can have in a stack, I think it's better to use one line of units to represent the entirety of that line, rather than several. There simply aren't enough units to have multiple hastati maniples in the first line, multiple principes maniples in the second and so on.

The formation you see in the screenshot has worked time and again, against everything I've thrown it at. The first line always gets badly mauled, they tend to take the bulk of any casualties, but then when the second line gets involved the enemy is worn out. The only annoyance comes with the default formation files, sometimes when you try to move the whole army, it completely messes up the formation pulling them all into one line.

[J.Alco]

Allright, I'll take your word for it as you've thoroughly tested that formation so if it works, it works.

Out of curiosity, what's the title of Goldsworthy's book you mentioned? Would I be able to find it on Amazon?

[QuintusSertorius]

Allright, I'll take your word for it as you've thoroughly tested that formation so if it works, it works.

Out of curiosity, what's the title of Goldsworthy's book you mentioned? Would I be able to find it on Amazon?

There's Roman Warfare (a bit short, IMO), lots of useful stuff in In the Name of Rome: The men who won the Roman Empire, and the one I've used for a lot of the early parts of this guide is The Fall of Carthage (also sold as The Punic Wars).

[grwn]

Hi Quintus :)

I was wondering what kind of strategies you use in sieges, I don't see any of that mentioned, or my eyesight is going worse by the day

Thanks,
grwn

[QuintusSertorius]

Hi Quintus :)

I was wondering what kind of strategies you use in sieges, I don't see any of that mentioned, or my eyesight is going worse by the day

Thanks,
grwn

I haven't really spoken about it in the guide, mostly because I find them boring, but I should make an effort to. Strictly speaking, in the period most places were taken either by starving them out or treachery/surprise rather than direct assault. Professional Hellenic armies had other options, but the Romans weren't up to their levels of skill until deep into the Second Punic War, and most of those skills were lost again when veterans demobilised.

To get to the point, I tend to use a full stack, build four rams (or ladders) and attack from two sides. With wooden walled places, once a gate and wall is breached on each side, I wait a bit for my skirmisers to whittle down the defenders. Then the assault goes in.

With stone walls, I try to get people onto the walls as quickly as possible and seize towers before doing anything else. Once I'm in no danger from tower arrows, I move the rest in.

[lobf]

So are you going to update post Punic War II?

[Macilrille]

This is nice, but I see you adhere to Badian et al's interpretation of Roman imperialism, saying, "Extermination is rare. Only two settlements were razed to the ground (and in the same year - 146BC), Kart-Hadast and Korinthos."

This is definately not true. I recommend reading W. V. Harris; "War and Imperialism in Republican Rome", Oxford, 1976.
Though a bit old and though some scepticism is definately necessary reading this as well as other accounts and original sources (Source Criticism is what differentiates History from fiction), he has some points on the mentality of Romans and their treatment of the conquered. And he lists several instances where subjugated cities and populations were massacred by Romans, even in the Hellenistic world where the good Quintus maintains Romans behaved benevolently.

Good job on the guide though, this sort of thing is exactly what we need in order to not just conquer everything in two generations.

[cosmyn12]

cool guide but idk who are the Achaeans? Where is thei homeland or provinces