Elephants still too weak?

[Starforge]

I rarely build elephants but they have their uses:

1. Early game blitzing of wooden walled towns (sack the town - pay for upkeep )

2. Psych warfare - not that the AI can't be effectively made to route but it's even easier now (or helpful on Hard / VH)

3. Last ditch break of an enemy line in a battle where you really need it (after missiles have been exhausted preferably.)

Anyone wanting to use them as the main battle tank of the time period is in for a rude suprise (or need to stop watching Peter Jackson's films.)

[Watchman]

They're a pretty good cavalry counter too. I found throwing them in first did wonders to even out the armour disparity between Hetairoi and Molosson Agema in the ensuing melee...

Not that a big clump of Romans already busy with phalangites and Hoplitai quite appreciated an elephant-cavalry double-whammy into the flank and rear either.

[Sdragon]

Elephants charged my skirmishers from the front even after getting loads of slings in them and javelins Even on huge scale with deep ranks they slammed right through and whipped out half the unit. Had to send my peltests over and continue the sling shooting to kill them off. They are far tougher than before and hit like a tone of bricks. Not sure if their cost has changed but I might consider using them now from what I witnessed

Also during a siege I noticed that 1 skirmisher unit had to use all of it's javelins to destroy a unit. Plus Eperos seems to have two units of these beasties along with 3xp phalanx and hyspatis(sp?). They are no push overs. Not to mention KH in the South scooping up mercs by the hand full. Still an easy game but far more challenge than anything I got from 1.0.

[Barry Soteiro]

The real question is : In reality how were you supposed to kill an armored elephant ?

[/Bean\]

i agree, i think armoured elephants should be a LOT harder to kill, depending on the stregth of their armour, but non armoured ele's are always wasted by the AI. The best was to use them is to hold them back, have all the infantry engage in the centre so theres a big mass of people, then move round the flank with the ele's and plow into their backs...they can finish a fight, they're not much use starting one

[Watchman]

I've found it an excellent tactic to use them as the first-wave charge in a cavalry engagement though.

[Tyrfingr]

i agree, i think armoured elephants should be a LOT harder to kill, depending on the stregth of their armour, but non armoured ele's are always wasted by the AI. The best was to use them is to hold them back, have all the infantry engage in the centre so theres a big mass of people, then move round the flank with the ele's and plow into their backs...they can finish a fight, they're not much use starting one

I beg to differ, I usually send in my elephants right through the enemy lines in the beginning of the fight, to demoralize the enemy and disrupt the formations as I move in the heavy infantry. I only let them run through however, and do not let them stay in the fray...

[/Bean\]

that works sometimes, but your army have to be close behind...tbh i dont use them often...they are hugely expensive and not usually worth it...they wud be useful early on, but by the time you can afford any they are outdated

[QuintusSertorius]

The real question is : In reality how were you supposed to kill an armored elephant ?

In reality, you don't have to. It's easier to scare it and if you have to immobilise it by hamstringing it.

[/Bean\]

if u were really lucky you could crawl under its armour and stab it in the belly lol

[Watchman]

You could probably cut open its throat too if you managed to get under the beast alive. Although the critter wasn't armoured, one Arab commander reputedly killed a Sassanid war elephant that way. (Several more apparently got trod on or killed by the fighting-crew trying to imitate the stunt...)

Or so I've read anyway.

[Digby Tatham Warter]

if u were really lucky you could crawl under its armour and stab it in the belly lol

The problem being the Seleukids had a 50 man bodyguard unit per Nellie.

I am interested in just how effective the armour was on Kataphracti Nellies.
In game the armour differences are minimal, but in reality, shouldn't a second skin of leather and iron double your missile resistance? It's just that armour seems to cost alot and does little.

I know that Elephants were defeated in different ways, including scare tactics and caltrops, but are there any accounts of heavily armoured Nel's being defeated relatively easily via missiles?

In game I always keep mine guarded against missiles, on the flank, and only sweep in for the kill when the enemy is fully committed. Afterall it only takes a tiny mistake for your Nel's to get wiped out. In one scrap recently I lost my 2 silver cheveroned Carthaginian Nel's after being charged by the enemy Generals body guard(hard setting). My Nels soon routed and the remainer just circled around the enemies balista tower(and I heard Nel's were smart).