Are the Aztecs more armoured than the Apache?

**Shaka_Khan** · 04-08-2008, 20:35

I find the Apache to be the most vulnerable when faced against missile units and armoured units. Even when I flank and charge at armoured units, I lose a lot of men.

I was doing well once I got guns. I outnumbered the French. Then I simply just stood and shot at a Native American faction that had much more armies than I did.

What got to me was the fact that I can't beat an Aztec unit no matter how much I flank with my Apaches. I just need to take at least three more provinces and I'm done. But I'm having a hard time defending my citadel against them. (I took this castle from another faction).

I think the main way of attacking for the Apache is missile units. Does anyone have any idea on how to fight as Apache?

**Duke Bart** · 04-09-2008, 00:46

theres the classic method of spamming the best you can afford. But against aztecs i would just sit back and keep them busy untill you get what you need to win. If you really want to fight them then you can tangle them up with cheap units while wailing away with archers, advancing bit by bit

**pike master** · 04-09-2008, 04:04

apaches are bugged. most units are missing their shield and armor values.

**Kommodus** · 04-09-2008, 05:02

The Aztecs have no cavalry, so use mounted thunder braves and horse archers against them. Harass them like crazy as they approach; you can usually cause a lot of casualties. As soon as they charge your infantry line, send your cavalry charging at them from behind, as your infantry cannot stand long on its own.

When you face large armies, don't worry if you suffer high casualties or even lose a battle or two, since numbers will ultimately be on your side. Aztecs are well armed and have high morale, but a steady war of attrition will quickly wear them out.

**ataribaby** · 04-09-2008, 09:19

I just started another Apache game yesterday (I still can't stick to one campaign long enough to reach the end! I must have A.D.D.).

Anyway, here's my usual strategy that works quite well:

Key:
BBBB = Braves
DDDD = Dog Soldiers (or other archers)
MM = Medicine Men
GG = General's unit
EEEE = Enemy unit

Have your frontline of Braves on fire-at-will and guard mode. Put your archers on fire-at-will and take off skirmish mode. Get your Medicine Men tucked in at regular intervals behind your braves; remember to keep them chanting to boost the morale of nearby troops and decrease the morale of attackers.

Your general can go where you like, but if you start off at the back, out of the way he can enter the battle to reinforce weak points.

Use a small column of Apachean Scouts on one side as your cavalry/flanking force.

Code:

SSSS
SSSS        BBBB BBBB BBBB BBBB BBBB BBBB
SSSS            MM        MM        MM
SSSS        DDDD DDDD DDDD DDDD DDDD DDDD
                          GG

Send your scout flankers out as soon as the battle starts. By the time the enemy close in, they will be taking archer fire and javelin fire. I suggest concentrating missiles to particularly powerful units. Your AP javelins are great for thinning out Eagles, Jaguars and Cuahchiqueh units.

Code:

SSSS                     EE
SSSS        EEEE EEEE EEEE EEEE EEEE EEEE
SSSS        EEEE EEEE EEEE EEEE EEEE EEEE
SSSS
            BBBB BBBB BBBB BBBB BBBB BBBB
                MM        MM        MM
            DDDD DDDD DDDD DDDD DDDD DDDD
                          GG

By the time your Braves are engaged in melee, your scouts should be in a line behind theirs. Charge them into their general's unit and any tough units that are causing the most damage to your Braves. Regular enemy troops and missile troops should rout pretty quickly. Hammer and anvil the remaining elite troops until they rout.

Code:

                SSSS SSSS SSSS SSSS
                         EE
            EEEE EEEE EEEE EEEE EEEE EEEE
            EEEE EEEE EEEE EEEE EEEE EEEE
            BBBB BBBB BBBB BBBB BBBB BBBB
                MM        MM        MM
            DDDD DDDD DDDD DDDD DDDD DDDD
                          GG

Your general and Medicine Men can plug any gaps in the frontline as Braves won't hold out forever. As a last resort send in your archers, but they really should be left to shoot for as long as possible - they do much more damage with arrows. If you have Koitsenkos and the means to retrain them, then by all means send them into the scrap as they're probably better in melee as Braves and Scouts. But by the time you have Koitsenkos, you usually also have cavalry so you can use different tactics anyway.

**Guru** · 04-09-2008, 12:25

Originally Posted by pike master

apaches are bugged. most units are missing their shield and armor values.

Most likely this bug affects only unit cards, I believe the stats actually work properly regardless of what the cards show.

**ataribaby** · 04-09-2008, 15:41

Originally Posted by Guru

Most likely this bug affects only unit cards, I believe the stats actually work properly regardless of what the cards show.

That's good to know. So many units have decent shields that should give at least a 3 if not a 5 to defence.

How did you find out? Has someone done tests?

**Monsieur Alphonse** · 04-09-2008, 15:51

With the exception of medicine men there are no apaches that have a shield value in the EDU.

**Guru** · 04-09-2008, 20:57

Originally Posted by ataribaby

That's good to know. So many units have decent shields that should give at least a 3 if not a 5 to defence.

How did you find out? Has someone done tests?

There was a thread or two when Kingdoms came out. Can't remember the details but the outcome was that the unit cards did not show right numbers for shields. According to the unit cards, some units that clearly carried shields had 0 as shield defence, and the other way around, some units without a shield had for example 6 shield defence in the card. Didn't find the thread by a quick search though. I think someone did tests and the shields were confirmed to be working properly, maybe there was a word from CA... Can't really remember but it must have been reliable information because I was convienced.

- Guru

**Shaka_Khan** · 04-16-2008, 07:04

Thanks all. I have no one else to attack except for the Aztecs. I just need 3 more provinces and I'm done.

I already have a lot of cavalry but most of them are far away. I deployed them to attack Aztec provinces. Then the Aztecs attacked first. I'm recruiting as many cavalry as much as possible and already doing what Kommadus said. But in the meantime, they'll be too far away to save my fortress. There's just too many Aztecs.

Thanks Ataribaby. (Are you the 80s generation)? I'll try your formation. I usually place my braves at the front too. They're good at beating enemies who get close, sometimes even before the enemy could even reach them.

**Cadwallon** · 04-21-2008, 01:47

As someone else said, expect your apachean to die like flies in HTH combat. I found the europeans fairly easy with their small elite forces, but the mesoamericans with their masses of heavy infantry and high attacks were a problem. You only balance this by obtaining thunder braves/mounted thunder braves.