Greek names for stuff (Q?)

[chairman]

Ok, so I've been working on unit lists for what might turn into a game someday, and I'm curious about what the accurate names for certain units would be. So here are some of my units' names if a few of the EB greek scholars could advise me:

Campanian Hoplites (current latin/greek mix: Campanici Hoplitai)

Theban Sacred Band (Thebanoi Heiros Lochos)

Marine Hoplites (Epibatoi Hoplitai)

Spartan King's Guard Regiment (Spartiatai Hippeis Hoplitai)

Spartan Foriegners' (periokoi) Hoplites (Periokoi Hoplitai)

Successor non-cata armored cavalry (Hippeis Holosideroi)

BTW, what's the latin for slinger (IIRC it's funditores, maybe)

Also what does deuteroi mean exactly? Pantadapoi? Haploi?

And does anyone know what the Athenian freed slave regiment of horse-archers was called (aside from plain hippotoxotai)?

I will probably have more questions soon. I ask here because this forum has so many intelligent people. Thanks in advance!

Chairman

[keravnos]

Ok, so I've been working on unit lists for what might turn into a game someday, and I'm curious about what the accurate names for certain units would be. So here are some of my units' names if a few of the EB greek scholars could advise me:

Campanian Hoplites (current latin/greek mix: Campanici Hoplitai)

Theban Sacred Band (Thebanoi Heiros Lochos)

Marine Hoplites (Epibatoi Hoplitai)

Spartan King's Guard Regiment (Spartiatai Hippeis Hoplitai)

Spartan Foriegners' (periokoi) Hoplites (Periokoi Hoplitai)

Successor non-cata armored cavalry (Hippeis Holosideroi)

BTW, what's the latin for slinger (IIRC it's funditores, maybe)

Also what does deuteroi mean exactly? Pantadapoi? Haploi?

And does anyone know what the Athenian freed slave regiment of horse-archers was called (aside from plain hippotoxotai)?

I will probably have more questions soon. I ask here because this forum has so many intelligent people. Thanks in advance!

Chairman

Campanian Hoplites = Kampanioi Hoplitai

Theban Sacred Band = Hieros Lochos Thebaion

Marine Hoplites = Epibatai Hoplitai

Spartan King's Guard Regiment (Spartiatai Hippeis Hoplitai)... (Not sure if they used hoplitai, that would be a bit superfluous I think, back then Spartiatai hippeis would be enough, but I imagine that people won't know that those aren't mounted so you could use "hoplitai" in addition to that.

Spartan Foriegners' (periokoi) Hoplites = Perioikoi hoplitai Perioikoi means" those who live around, aren't foreigners, but native populations who live in the mountainside and weren't made into helots (eilotai) The foreigners who would live in Sparta would be Metoikoi, thus Metoikoi Hoplitai

Successor non-cata armored cavalry, I would try "Thorakismenoi hippeis" or "Bareis hippeis" meaning literally "heavy horsemen"

BTW, what's the latin for slinger (IIRC it's funditores, maybe)
(Ascensi maybe? I don't know, but there are many Romani experts here who do)

Also what does deuteroi mean exactly? Pantadapoi? Haploi? ---> Deuteroi mean SECOND (in this case second rate)

And does anyone know what the Athenian freed slave regiment of horse-archers was called (aside from plain hippotoxotai)?

The literal translation would be "Apeleutheroi hippotoxotai", but I have to ask. Didn't Athenians also use Skythian horse archers? I imagine you are refering to the period of Peloponnesian war, when Athens created "hit and run" horsemen whose job was to harass the troops of Peloponnesean alliance.

Oh, and BTW, I think there are many smart people around here, many MUCH smarter than us members. I really think it is a success that this forum has gathered as many enthousiasts, military historians or plainly interested people in the Hellenistic era that it depicts. It really does give us EB members the strength to carry on.

[Tellos Athenaios]

IIRC the Athenians employed Skythian slaves as their archery corps? Might be one and the same, ehm, unit?

[chairman]

Thanks Keravnos!

I didn't actually mean foriegners with the perioikoi, but I couldn't remember what their status actually was. If I use perioikoi (as a second class spartan unit), would the correct name be "Perioikoi Hoplitai"?

On the latin slingers, IIRC, accensi were baggage handlers or some-such supernumerary group who were armed with slings for the sake of the game, while funditores means ~ "sling-armed soldier".

Chairman

[russia almighty]

I don't think the peri's should be second rate in your game or mod though. Having Spartan drill instructors would probably make you somewhat hardcore.

[chairman]

@Russia: second-rate Spartan is still quite relative though, compared to something like other states' militia hoplites . Besides, the perioikoi weren't held to nearly as high standards as the Spartan homoioi "equals", so 'second-rate' is not too far off.

OK, so more name questions (greek):

In units like Thessalian cavalry, does the 'ethnic' or 'type' descriptor come first? Example, is it Thessalike Xystophoroi or Xystophoroi Thessalike?

In my game I want peltasts to be more like the 5th century style rather than the armored 3rd century style. For the heavier version, should I call them Thorakitai Peltastai?

Also does "Hoplitai Haploi" mean militia hoplites or is it something else? And what exactly does "pantadapoi" mean?

For Latin:

Clipeata means 'armed with hoplite shield' but would that mean that say Samnitici Clipeata is Samnite Hoplites?

And what is the latin for Latin as in the Latin tribes allied to Rome?

Thanks!

Chairman

[keravnos]

Thanks Keravnos!

I didn't actually mean foriegners with the perioikoi, but I couldn't remember what their status actually was. If I use perioikoi (as a second class spartan unit), would the correct name be "Perioikoi Hoplitai"?

On the latin slingers, IIRC, accensi were baggage handlers or some-such supernumerary group who were armed with slings for the sake of the game, while funditores means ~ "sling-armed soldier".

Chairman

Perioikoi hoplitai is great. So far as the accensi go, well, I think you know better.
So far as having Spartan instructors, it sure is great, so long as you survive...

[Idomeneas]

IIRC the Athenians employed Skythian slaves as their archery corps? Might be one and the same, ehm, unit?

Τhere used to be a number of Skythian slaves acting as police force on foot in Athens. They carried clubs and bows.
Hippotoxotai as far as i know was a different unit. A cavalry unit most propably consisting of mercenaries or troops supplied by special agreement with the city-state. Alcibiades was assigned to that squadron as a punishment. This unit was considered a ''bad transfer'' because it wasnt a unit of citizens plus the fact of the extreme behaviour of Skythians and their drinking problems. AA could help them alot it seems

[chairman]

@Idomeneas: I don't know whether that slave unit contained skythians or not, though I'm sure it's a possbility. I do know that Athens maintained two permanent units of archers: the skythian archer regiment serving as city police (ouch if you break the law), and a unit of slaves who were purchased at the city's expense and trained as horse-archers. AFAIK the skythian archers would have been mercanaries hired from overseas, while the origins of the slaves was probably pretty various.

Chairman

[chairman]

OK, so this is more a question about Latin (or ancient Italic languages?). What would I call units recruited from the Italian allies after their disbandment as natively equipped troops in the 2nd Punic War? Until their betrayel to Hannibal, the Samnites and other Italian allies were armed and organized along traditional lines native to their respective regions. However, after around 211, the allies lost many of their priviledges, and, when recruited, were armed and organized along Roman lines. What might these units be called? I was thinking something along the lines of Hastati Socii, Princepes Socii (don't think I need Triarii) and Equites Socii. If there is a better alternative or if there is something inherently wrong in the Latin, please feel free to inform me. My Latin is practically non-existant except for what I have picked up in reading history books. Thanks.

Chairman