Valid Protest?

[Lemur]

So this lady gets an invite to carry the Olympic torch for a wee bit in the U.S.A. Fine, whatever. So she hides a Tibetan flag in her sleeve, whips it out once she has the torch. Good idea? Who knows. Poor taste? Maybe. Protected political speech in the U.S.A.? You betcha.

Here's where it gets dicey: "A Chinese paramilitary squad escorting the torch quickly snatched it from her, and cops pushed her into the crowd." I'm not sure I understand why that's fair or legal. This ain't China, and if a law-abiding citizen wants to wave a flag, it's allowed. Why are private security details allowed to stop her? Why are our own police helping? Can someone make a cogent argument for why this is okay, and not a sad episode of toadying on the part of our government?

Yeah, I get it that the torch is not public property, that there are restrictions on how it's handled, etc. But if an invited torchbearer wants to make a small gesture that is well within the legal rights of a citizen in good standing, who's got the legal standing to hustle her away and kick her out?

[HoreTore]

But if an invited torchbearer wants to make a small gesture that is well within the legal rights of a citizen in good standing, who's got the legal standing to hustle her away and kick her out?

Dictators do.

[Crazed Rabbit]

Good for her. Shame on Newsome (SF mayor) for changing the route like a coward and the police for touching her. I bet that SF mayor likes to chat with his upper crust friends upper how Tibet should be freed, but lacks the balls to stand up to some real badness in our world.

CR

[Incongruous]

Rather disgusting really, pretty sad also.
Oh well, the Olympics are rubbish anyway.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Nobody has managed to point out to me how the occupation of Tibet is worse than, say, the occupation of Iraq.

Ah, I've got it. It's because one side is a dictatorship. Sorry.

[Lemur]

Nobody has managed to point out to me how the occupation of Tibet is worse than, say, the occupation of Iraq.

Do you just run around, derailing threads for your own amusement? Is that more or less fun than crushing kittens?

However, I will play. The U.S.A. does not consider Iraq part of its natural territory. The U.S.A. does not intend to integrate Iraq into its homeland. The U.S.A. wants to get out of Iraq as soon as it reasonably can, and all of the hullabaloo you hear between political candidates over here is about when and how fast. Nobody who wants to stay or get in office is talking about an infinite occupation.

The parallels just keep ... not happening. Why do the two seem comparable to you, anyway? Is there any serious, interesting observation you can make about the congruency of the two occupations, or are you just shooting from the hip, seeing if you hit anything?

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Do you just run around, derailing threads for your own amusement? Is that more or less fun than crushing kittens?

Derailing threads? Really? Perhaps you'd like to point out an example?

As I see it, not only do Backroom threads generally get more derailed than this on a regular basis, but I am in the vast majority of cases not the instigator of this, and we're still talking about Tibet.

I'll presume you're tired or something, as you're usually very polite.

EDIT: Now I'm confused as to if your comments were in jest or not. By your comment below, I presume so.

The parallels just keep ... not happening. Why do the two seem comparable to you, anyway? Is there any serious, interesting observation you can make about the congruency of the two occupations, or are you just shooting from the hip, seeing if you hit anything?

Three agendas, to be honest.

1) To get a rise out of people, of course. Not strictly amusing in it's own right, but it generally sparks some excellent debate.

2) Both were invaded and occupied by powers who shouldn't be there in the first place. In this case, you can argue that China has more right to be in Tibet than America does in Iraq. Inhumane treatment and civilian casualties are commonplace in both places. Civilians were abducted by the occupiers and taken to places where their human rights were ripped to shreds. So on and so forth.

3) I don't believe the Tibet protests make sense, just as much as I don't believe Iraq protests make sense - though for two completely different reasons. I believe that people have the right to protest, but the Chinese have the right to keep the flame in a secure, peaceful environment. They can protest from the sidelines, but the second someone moves to damage (put out) or disrupt the actual event, it becomes unacceptable. I'm not aware of the laws on this type of event in America, however.

[Lemur]

Derailing threads? Really? Perhaps you'd like to point out an example?

I will only answer this question when you explain whether or not you prefer crushing kittens to the aforementioned activity. I asked a perfectly straightforward question about kitten crushing, and dang it, I deserve an answer!

And since you've "dodged" my kitten-death question, you still owe me an answer, to a question which I will formulate any minute now. It's going to be something along the lines of "Why do you hate freedom?" but maybe more topical. I'll get to it presently.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

I will only answer this question when you explain whether or not you prefer crushing kittens to the aforementioned activity. I asked a perfectly straightforward question about kitten crushing, and dang it, I deserve an answer!

On the contrary, I am a great fan of cats. Stomping on kittens gives me little pleasure. Shooting puppies? Still no.

Chipmunks?

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

May they rot in the fires of doom.

[Vladimir]

Do you just run around, derailing threads for your own amusement? Is that more or less fun than crushing kittens?

I will only answer this question when you explain whether or not you prefer crushing kittens to the aforementioned activity. I asked a perfectly straightforward question about kitten crushing, and dang it, I deserve an answer!

And since you've "dodged" my kitten-death question, you still owe me an answer, to a question which I will formulate any minute now. It's going to be something along the lines of "Why do you hate freedom?" but maybe more topical. I'll get to it presently.

Let me just derail this thread with a derailment.

Personally I enjoy tossing puppies over cliffs. (Oh my, did he just say that?!)

[Ronin]

Let me just derail this thread with a derailment.

Personally I enjoy tossing puppies over cliffs. (Oh my, did he just say that?!)

[ICantSpellDawg]

So this lady gets an invite to carry the Olympic torch for a wee bit in the U.S.A. Fine, whatever. So she hides a Tibetan flag in her sleeve, whips it out once she has the torch. Good idea? Who knows. Poor taste? Maybe. Protected political speech in the U.S.A.? You betcha.

Here's where it gets dicey: "A Chinese paramilitary squad escorting the torch quickly snatched it from her, and cops pushed her into the crowd." I'm not sure I understand why that's fair or legal. This ain't China, and if a law-abiding citizen wants to wave a flag, it's allowed. Why are private security details allowed to stop her? Why are our own police helping? Can someone make a cogent argument for why this is okay, and not a sad episode of toadying on the part of our government?

Yeah, I get it that the torch is not public property, that there are restrictions on how it's handled, etc. But if an invited torchbearer wants to make a small gesture that is well within the legal rights of a citizen in good standing, who's got the legal standing to hustle her away and kick her out?

Despicable. People should assault those security guards with some paint or something.

[Pannonian]

I'll say again that these kinds of protests are counterproductive, if their objective is to secure better conditions for Tibet. However, if their objective is to make the protestors feel good about themselves in upholding some moral good, then they're certainly effective.

What do you think?

[Crazed Rabbit]

Photos from the protest in SF:
http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/zombie-...san-francisco/

Everyone with a grudge against China turned out; anti-Darfur genocide, Burma, Vietnam, and of course Tibet.

CR

[naut]

Well I'm glad Mr. Smug Rudd has grown some balls and said that the Chinese paramilitaries will not be allowed off the Chinese bus and the torch will be protected by Aussie security.

I hope someone extinguishes it.

[CountArach]

What jurisdiction do the Chinese Parmilitary forces have in this case to stop teh person from this legitimate protest? Absolutely shocking.

[HoreTore]

What jurisdiction do the Chinese Parmilitary forces have in this case to stop teh person from this legitimate protest? Absolutely shocking.

I'm guessing they use the same as Blackwater does to shoot civilians and get away with it.

In other words, none.

[Geoffrey S]

Not protesting what the Chinese are doing in Tibet is one thing. Understandably there are plenty of opinions on the matter, so disagreement is not surprising.

But allowing the Chinese to abuse the Olympic Games as spectacle, and not drawing a line when they do things like this? It's beyond their sovereignty and jurisdiction and shouldn't be tolerated. I'm all for keeping politics out of the Olympics, but if the Chinese can't resist the gloves should come off.

[Adrian II]

Modern Olympics aren't about sports. Anyone who thinks so needs his head examined. It's a circus in the original sense. And anyone who protests and ridicules these games is entitled to feel good. Cause they did good.

This torch thingy has become the best anti-Chinese propaganda train in quite a while. Most amusing. In London it was nearly snatched by protesters, in France it had to be doused despite the presence of 3000 police, in San Francisco it was paraded through empty warehouses and alleyways at break-neck speed. Teh redicule.