KotR - Unanswered Questions

[Privateerkev]

Jan... weapon of annoyance.

I like it!

Thanks, I always wanted to know that. One day I log on and find Jan is King. I was still a relatively new player at the time and all of a sudden I was thrust up into the higher politics of the game. Took me a little while to gain my footing. :D

[Ituralde]

I know what you mean. My ascent to Duke was very surprising too back then.
But I gotta say though, once you've tasted that power it's hard to go back!

[AussieGiant]

Interesting gentlemen, my only issue with that rational Ituralde ,was that Karl Zirn's Chivalry rating was 'off' the chart back then as well.

It was certainly a surprising decision in the Order that Karl was overlooked. As one of our Chivalry characters we where expecting him to gain a lot of ground as the antithesis of Arnold.

And yes Ituralde, You and Leopold will always have a special spot in my heart as the first character I had anything to do with as the “Merchant of Venice” elector I created while waiting for Arnold…

when he was first born and I saw the name I groaned and thought…”damn what a crap name. He wont be much fun to play”.

Oh how wrong I was

[Privateerkev]

Interesting gentlemen, my only issue with that rational Ituralde ,was that Karl Zirn's Chivalry rating was 'off' the chart back then as well.

It was certainly a surprising decision in the Order that Karl was overlooked. As one of our Chivalry characters we where expecting him to gain a lot of ground as the antithesis of Arnold.

Your overlooking the other reason he gave. To annoy the Diet. Can you conceive of anything less annoying than Karl? The man was the pillar of non-annoyance.

As to your second point, here is one mistake the Order made with Karl. When it came time to vote, Karl voted with Order characters. That is what made Jan suspicious. I spent countless hours pouring over the voting threads looking for connections. Whenever Arnold needed a vote to go a certain way, Karl was always there. While I did not guess he was in the Order, it made Jan not trust Karl one bit.

To Jan, it wasn't enough to have chivalry traits, you also had to vote chivalrous. Which is why he trusted Sigismund so much. Jan saw Karl as a total phony.

If you guys would have had Karl vote different on a couple of things, Jan and Elberhard would have approached him earlier to join them as anti-Illuminati.

Fritz on the other hand had a voting record that made me overlook him. I thought Fritz was an on/off ally of the Order but I never guessed he was in it.

Just something to keep in mind the next time people form secret societies.

[AussieGiant]

Your overlooking the other reason he gave. To annoy the Diet. Can you conceive of anything less annoying than Karl? The man was the pillar of non-annoyance.

As to your second point, here is one mistake the Order made with Karl. When it came time to vote, Karl voted with Order characters. That is what made Jan suspicious. I spent countless hours pouring over the voting threads looking for connections. Whenever Arnold needed a vote to go a certain way, Karl was always there. While I did not guess he was in the Order, it made Jan not trust Karl one bit.

To Jan, it wasn't enough to have chivalry traits, you also had to vote chivalrous. Which is why he trusted Sigismund so much. Jan saw Karl as a total phony.

If you guys would have had Karl vote different on a couple of things, Jan and Elberhard would have approached him earlier to join them as anti-Illuminati.

Fritz on the other hand had a voting record that made me overlook him. I thought Fritz was an on/off ally of the Order but I never guessed he was in it.

Just something to keep in mind the next time people form secret societies.

Good points. Karl was not very annoying, and NN will confirm that I'm sure

The voting was hard to interpret. We where very aware of voting trends as you have read. Our rational in Karl's voting behaviour was always the link that he was a loyal noble to Arnold as Duke...with the idea being that we would present it as him being a loyal noble to Arnold and not Illuminati. It was a balancing act which was impossible to tell from our point of view. We were not able to determine how other's perceived Karl very easily.

Now that I've seen your suspicions I wished we'd had him vote a few more times to ally those concerns you had.

Ah well...it was so abstract that I can't really beat "us" up too much about. Considering his results in the Battle of Trent I'll take that 'end" result everytime as the GM of the Order.

[Northnovas]

I think there was way too much analysis on the voting. I was never told how to vote by the House or the Order and the one vote that caught PK's suspicion had nothing to do with the Order or the House. It was a non issue and I just voted the way I did with really no thought or consequence.

I did vote by the loyalty of my House. The only strategy on voting for the Illuminate was not all trying to bandwagon on a contentious issue.

It was only after my voting was brought to my attention I gave it some consideration for future voting that someone one was paying attention.

[Privateerkev]

I think there was way too much analysis on the voting. I was never told how to vote by the House or the Order and the one vote that caught PK's suspicion had nothing to do with the Order or the House. It was a non issue and I just voted the way I did with really no thought or consequence.

I did vote by the loyalty of my House. The only strategy on voting for the Illuminate was not all trying to bandwagon on a contentious issue.

It was only after my voting was brought to my attention I gave it some consideration for future voting that someone one was paying attention.

It was Karl's vote on the mercy CA that caught Jan's attention. The CA was not going to pass so it would have been smart to let Karl vote for it. It was his no vote, and his later explanation that Arnold told him to vote no, that raised Jan's suspicion.

Jan wanted people to "walk the walk", not just "talk the talk". The situation ended up with Jan holding Karl in such contempt, that they were never going to be close. Jan at least respected that Arnold and Lothar never tried to pretend to be anything other than who they were.

But hind-sight is always 20/20 as they say. :D