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Thread: Roman Allied Legions

  1. #61
    Member Member Skandinav's Avatar
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    Default Re: Roman Allied Legions

    EDIT: Deleted as I got it answered elsewhere.
    Last edited by Skandinav; 07-07-2008 at 23:53.

  2. #62
    The Naked Rambler Member Roka's Avatar
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    Default Re: Roman Allied Legions

    don't mean to sound like a dumbass, but none of the allies heve the bit that tell you were they were recruityed from, also how do you name your armies, again sorry for sounding like a dumbass

    cheers...

  3. #63
    Whatever Member konny's Avatar
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    Default AW: Roman Allied Legions

    It sounds like you have done something wrong with the installation. Do you use the "Trivial Script" to start the campaign?

    Disclaimer: my posts are to be considered my private opinion and not offical statements by the EB Team

  4. #64
    The Naked Rambler Member Roka's Avatar
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    Default Re: AW: Roman Allied Legions

    Quote Originally Posted by konny View Post
    It sounds like you have done something wrong with the installation. Do you use the "Trivial Script" to start the campaign?
    i have no idea... does that mean clicking show me how when the advisor says so?

  5. #65
    Whatever Member konny's Avatar
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    Default AW: Roman Allied Legions

    No. It is how you start the game: with a shortcut on your desktop or with the "Trivial Script" that came with EB 1.1? In the later case you have to copy the file export_descr_untis.txt from the data folder into the SP-folder of the Trivial Script and override the existing one that is there.

    Disclaimer: my posts are to be considered my private opinion and not offical statements by the EB Team

  6. #66
    The Naked Rambler Member Roka's Avatar
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    Default Re: AW: Roman Allied Legions

    Quote Originally Posted by konny View Post
    No. It is how you start the game: with a shortcut on your desktop or with the "Trivial Script" that came with EB 1.1? In the later case you have to copy the file export_descr_untis.txt from the data folder into the SP-folder of the Trivial Script and override the existing one that is there.
    i dont think i installed the trivial script because EB didn't install right the first time (i put it in program files) and i thought id try it without the trivial script, i'll install EB again then, download the mod again

    thanks for getitng back to me...

    EDIT: are your legions always named or is it only after a certain reform?
    Last edited by Roka; 08-07-2008 at 18:27.

  7. #67
    Member Member TWFanatic's Avatar
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    Default Re: Roman Allied Legions

    Hello,

    I was wondering if you could tell me what exactly you did in your modifications so that I may manually apply them to my files. My files are all already modded (I have city mod plus many mods that effect EDU).
    It would be a violation of my code as a gentleman to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed person.-Veeblefester
    Ego is the anesthetic for the pain of stupidity.-me
    It is better to keep your mouth shut and be thought of as a fool than to open it and remove all doubt.-Sir Winston Churchill
    ΔΟΣ ΜΟΙ ΠΑ ΣΤΩ ΚΑΙ ΤΑΝ ΓΑΝ ΚΙΝΑΣΩ--Give me a place to stand and I will move the earth.-Archimedes on his work with levers
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  8. #68
    Whatever Member konny's Avatar
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    Default AW: Roman Allied Legions

    I have added the legionary_name feature to the respective units in EDU and defined the regional names in descr_regions. That, plus all the recruitement changes in EDB that you find in post 1 and tweaking the campaign_script.txt to make factional recruitement possible in Taras and Rhegion, and impossible in Segesta.

    Disclaimer: my posts are to be considered my private opinion and not offical statements by the EB Team

  9. #69
    Member Member TWFanatic's Avatar
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    Default Re: Roman Allied Legions

    Cheers

    EDIT: Some more questions relating to the specifics...

    Are Roman light infantry (Leves, Roarii, Accensi) recruitable only in Rome? It would make sense as they are all Roman citizens. (Or am I wrong here?)

    Also, why can't Extraordinarii be recruited in the Camillan era? And why are they recruitable in Rome only? If they are socii, shouldn’t they be recruitable only amongst the allies?
    Last edited by TWFanatic; 08-10-2008 at 19:35.
    It would be a violation of my code as a gentleman to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed person.-Veeblefester
    Ego is the anesthetic for the pain of stupidity.-me
    It is better to keep your mouth shut and be thought of as a fool than to open it and remove all doubt.-Sir Winston Churchill
    ΔΟΣ ΜΟΙ ΠΑ ΣΤΩ ΚΑΙ ΤΑΝ ΓΑΝ ΚΙΝΑΣΩ--Give me a place to stand and I will move the earth.-Archimedes on his work with levers
    Click here for my Phalanx/Aquilifer mod

  10. #70
    Whatever Member konny's Avatar
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    Default AW: Re: Roman Allied Legions

    Quote Originally Posted by TWFanatic View Post
    Are Roman light infantry (Leves, Roarii, Accensi) recruitable only in Rome? It would make sense as they are all Roman citizens. (Or am I wrong here?)
    I am lacking suitable replacements for the Socii, so I kept the auxilia units the way they were.

    Also, why can't Extraordinarii be recruited in the Camillan era?
    The Saminitici Milites are now very widespread available in Camillan times, but not in Polybian. Having them and the Extraordinarii in the same periode would make either of them pointless to recruite.

    The Samnitici Milites would represent the foot soldiers of the first class from the Italian Allies. Those did not all fight in a Greek Hoplites Phalanx prior to the 3rd Century BC, what would result in an unit a bit different from the Camillan Triarii (the equipement is basically the same, but the Milites throw their spears and close in with the sword; a somewhat archaic 'Homerian' tacitcs).

    In Polybian times the equipement is much more uniform and the Milites have all together disappeared save for some picked men who fight as Extraordinarii.

    And why are they recruitable in Rome only? If they are socii, shouldn’t they be recruitable only amongst the allies?
    The allied contingents were marshalled in Rome and the Extraordinarii formed upon this occasion. Having them in Rome only also (should!) limit them being spamed by the AI.
    Last edited by konny; 08-11-2008 at 13:20.

    Disclaimer: my posts are to be considered my private opinion and not offical statements by the EB Team

  11. #71
    Member Member TWFanatic's Avatar
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    Default Re: Roman Allied Legions

    Leves can be replaced by Akontistai and Accensi by Toxotai and Sphendonitai. However, I understand your line of reasoning and agree somewhat.

    Btw, what units should be used for garrison duty? I used to use Leves and Accensi because of their low costs. I assume this is inaccurate. Should I use local allied troops for garrison duties (in spite of the tremendous cost of Brutian and Samnite infantry, etc.)?
    It would be a violation of my code as a gentleman to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed person.-Veeblefester
    Ego is the anesthetic for the pain of stupidity.-me
    It is better to keep your mouth shut and be thought of as a fool than to open it and remove all doubt.-Sir Winston Churchill
    ΔΟΣ ΜΟΙ ΠΑ ΣΤΩ ΚΑΙ ΤΑΝ ΓΑΝ ΚΙΝΑΣΩ--Give me a place to stand and I will move the earth.-Archimedes on his work with levers
    Click here for my Phalanx/Aquilifer mod

  12. #72
    Whatever Member konny's Avatar
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    Default AW: Re: Roman Allied Legions

    Quote Originally Posted by TWFanatic View Post
    Leves can be replaced by Akontistai and Accensi by Toxotai and Sphendonitai. However, I understand your line of reasoning and agree somewhat.
    A good idea.... But you won't like it in your game, because both Akontistai and Toxotai (the Sphendonetai can't be used because of model sharing) would still be Greek units using the respective voice mod. At least I won't like it that way.

    Btw, what units should be used for garrison duty? I used to use Leves and Accensi because of their low costs. I assume this is inaccurate. Should I use local allied troops for garrison duties (in spite of the tremendous cost of Brutian and Samnite infantry, etc.)?
    I use Rorari. I recruite one unit of Rorari per Legion of each city (here the "named Legions" become very handy) but don't draft them to the army when moving the respective Legions out of the town. That way as many Rorari as the town has raised Legions remain as garrisons.

    In peace times, or when not all Legions are fighting overseas, the Legions themselves form the garrisons. It would be more accurate to disband them in their parent towns when not needed, but that would require 0-turn recruitement to quickly raise them again. So, these represent the citizens "ready-to-be-drafted" what might be used as reserves for the field army or to hunt down rebells in Italy.

    Disclaimer: my posts are to be considered my private opinion and not offical statements by the EB Team

  13. #73
    Member Member TWFanatic's Avatar
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    Default Re: Roman Allied Legions

    Good idea. This process will be much easier with M2:TW with free garrison units and multiple unit recruitment.

    (the Sphendonetai can't be used because of model sharing)
    So two units that share a model cannot be used in the same battle? I've never heard that before. Why?
    It would be a violation of my code as a gentleman to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed person.-Veeblefester
    Ego is the anesthetic for the pain of stupidity.-me
    It is better to keep your mouth shut and be thought of as a fool than to open it and remove all doubt.-Sir Winston Churchill
    ΔΟΣ ΜΟΙ ΠΑ ΣΤΩ ΚΑΙ ΤΑΝ ΓΑΝ ΚΙΝΑΣΩ--Give me a place to stand and I will move the earth.-Archimedes on his work with levers
    Click here for my Phalanx/Aquilifer mod

  14. #74
    Whatever Member konny's Avatar
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    Default AW: Re: Roman Allied Legions

    Quote Originally Posted by TWFanatic View Post
    So two units that share a model cannot be used in the same battle? I've never heard that before. Why?
    No. A single model cannot be used for different units in the same faction.

    Disclaimer: my posts are to be considered my private opinion and not offical statements by the EB Team

  15. #75
    Member Member TWFanatic's Avatar
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    Default Re: Roman Allied Legions

    That doesn't make sense. You mean I cannot use Sphendonetai and Accensi on the field together? What would happen if I did?
    It would be a violation of my code as a gentleman to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed person.-Veeblefester
    Ego is the anesthetic for the pain of stupidity.-me
    It is better to keep your mouth shut and be thought of as a fool than to open it and remove all doubt.-Sir Winston Churchill
    ΔΟΣ ΜΟΙ ΠΑ ΣΤΩ ΚΑΙ ΤΑΝ ΓΑΝ ΚΙΝΑΣΩ--Give me a place to stand and I will move the earth.-Archimedes on his work with levers
    Click here for my Phalanx/Aquilifer mod

  16. #76
    Whatever Member konny's Avatar
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    Default AW: Roman Allied Legions

    Sphendonetai that have been recruited by SPQR would look like Accensi and Accensi that had been recruited by someone else would look like Sphendonetai. You have it in Rhegion: the garrison is said to have a unit of Accensi but on the battlefield they look like Sphendonetai because they are used by the Eleutheroi.

    Disclaimer: my posts are to be considered my private opinion and not offical statements by the EB Team

  17. #77
    Member Member TWFanatic's Avatar
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    Default Re: Roman Allied Legions

    Ah...that's right. DMB enteries have seperate textures for each faction, etc. I haven't modded that area of the game in so long that I had forgotten.
    It would be a violation of my code as a gentleman to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed person.-Veeblefester
    Ego is the anesthetic for the pain of stupidity.-me
    It is better to keep your mouth shut and be thought of as a fool than to open it and remove all doubt.-Sir Winston Churchill
    ΔΟΣ ΜΟΙ ΠΑ ΣΤΩ ΚΑΙ ΤΑΝ ΓΑΝ ΚΙΝΑΣΩ--Give me a place to stand and I will move the earth.-Archimedes on his work with levers
    Click here for my Phalanx/Aquilifer mod

  18. #78
    Member Member TWFanatic's Avatar
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    Default Re: Roman Allied Legions

    I was thinking of adding the legionary_name attribute to other units. I hope I am not leaching off of your modding expertise when I ask you if I would have to do anything else in order to make them get the parentheses with the name of the province they were recruited in after the unit name. Also, would I be correct in assuming that ALL factions who recruit these units would receive these parentheses as well (not just the Romani)?
    It would be a violation of my code as a gentleman to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed person.-Veeblefester
    Ego is the anesthetic for the pain of stupidity.-me
    It is better to keep your mouth shut and be thought of as a fool than to open it and remove all doubt.-Sir Winston Churchill
    ΔΟΣ ΜΟΙ ΠΑ ΣΤΩ ΚΑΙ ΤΑΝ ΓΑΝ ΚΙΝΑΣΩ--Give me a place to stand and I will move the earth.-Archimedes on his work with levers
    Click here for my Phalanx/Aquilifer mod

  19. #79

    Default Re: Roman Allied Legions

    I liked your mod at first glance but then unistalled it. I would personally make some revamps because I think the AOR for legions is way too strict taking the colonized Ager Publicus in Camillan times already, and also because I'm not very fond of having Bruttians or Samnitians in Etruria.

    Most likely the roster of Socii could be more diverse and Camillan recruitment more widespread: Camillan-exclusive provinces would be Etruria, Umbria and Latium, whereas Campania and Arpi would allow Samnitici Milites and Hastati, as well as Campanian Cavalry. Bruttian Infantry would be only recruitable in Tarentum and Rhegion, together with the Leukanoi and even some Greek hoplites; I don't know if there were Greek socii in Magna Graecia, but being a realm of what ifs, it is perfectly plausible to have some Greek units since a conquered Magna Graecia would have a significant Greek population and recruitment pool. However that might be not needed if Taras is made an Allied city and regional MIC's are built, so I would extend recruitment only to Leukanoi.

    In conclusion, this could be fitted within the Regional MIC system. The only problem is that Lvl. I governments do not allow much in the way of regional recruitment, despite the fact that Italian Allies contributed with a significant number of troops while being the historical Roman homeland. An interesting change the EB team could implement was to make "Homeland" provinces available by later reform, so as to allow a large regional recruitment in earlier times and gradually smaller amounts of Socii regiments with later reforms and lower level governments. BTW, IRL, Italy only became completely Romanized (thus "Homeland") in the early 1st Century BC with the Social War.

    Of course, being an amateur at scripting, I do not know the technical viability or the gameplay impact of such changes, so for now it is merely an idea.

  20. #80
    Member Member TWFanatic's Avatar
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    Default Re: Roman Allied Legions

    I suppose you are right in a way. I do recall Zak mentioning that the Hastati/Principes/Triarii represent not only Roman citizen infantry but also Italic allies who fought in a very similar manner. Unfortunately there are not enough "Italic allied" units to represent separate alae (with good reason, wasting unit slots on such trivialities would definitely be over-representing the Roman faction). So konny has done the best with the units he has.

    I asked that question two posts above because I wanted to expand alae recruitment in the Polybian era to outside of peninsular Italia into Cisalpine Gaul, Western Greece, Eastern Iberia, and Sicilia. I would then recruit proper triarii/principes/hastati/velites in Italia proper (once I upgrade the barracks) to represent a gradual adoption of the peculiarly Roman way of warfare in the region. Only those legions recruited from Roma would consist of citizens, others would remain alae. I could also levy legions of alae from the other, aforementioned regions outside of Italia proper. It may at first seem odd to be levying "legions" of non-Romanized Gauls and Spaniards, but it did happen (think of Caesar's Galatian "legions" at Zela). They would certainly provide a secondary role and only be levied when there was an absence of proper Italian legions for some reason or another. Or so goes my plan. Question: with the Polybian reforms in this mod I am capable of recruiting proper Roman infantry (velites through triarii) in all of peninsular Italia, correct?

    But back to the Roman Allied Legions. I like this system. It takes some adjusting to, but to address your problems, you can get around them in one of two ways:

    Think of the "Bruttians" and "Samnites" as not necessarily "Bruttians" or "Samnites" but units representative of such a fighting style that was prominent in Italia at the time (much as EB team members have recommended thinking of Roman citizen infantry in the past--not necessarily as Roman citizens, but citizens and allies all fighting in a similar style).

    or,

    Think of your alies as having congregated in, say, Etruria. They did not all come from this province, they merely assembled there at your command. When following this method, train your legions nearest to wherever the front is.

    As always, I recommend using zero-turn recruitment or script to levy entire legions in one turn. Avoid fielding multiple legions from a single province if you can help it (except for Roma, of course).

    I hope that helps.
    It would be a violation of my code as a gentleman to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed person.-Veeblefester
    Ego is the anesthetic for the pain of stupidity.-me
    It is better to keep your mouth shut and be thought of as a fool than to open it and remove all doubt.-Sir Winston Churchill
    ΔΟΣ ΜΟΙ ΠΑ ΣΤΩ ΚΑΙ ΤΑΝ ΓΑΝ ΚΙΝΑΣΩ--Give me a place to stand and I will move the earth.-Archimedes on his work with levers
    Click here for my Phalanx/Aquilifer mod

  21. #81
    Biotechnlogy Student Member ||Lz3||'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Roman Allied Legions

    the unit issue isn't a problem when using alex.exe twfanatic...

    I'm my personal EB I have added several units to complement my roman armies

    so far I have 2 new skirmishers and for polybian times I have Italic hastati ,italic princeps and italic triarii

    and well also the Aquilifer (god what I would do without it :P)

    I don't create units... I just add them from other mods (ejem...emm RTR...) that's why its only my personal build and I can't distribute it ... I can help you to do it if you wish though it's not that hard
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  22. #82
    Whatever Member konny's Avatar
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    Default AW: Re: Roman Allied Legions

    [QUOTE=TWFanatic;1987634 So konny has done the best with the units he has.[/quote]

    Yes. I had to deal with two limitations:

    - The one thing is that allowing for recruiting a single unit in a province in RTW means allowing for recruiting complete stacks of it form that province without having to recruite something else there. So I had to ignore the exisitence of coloniae outside Latium and made the allies the only recruitable unit in cities other than Roma.

    - The other thing are limited units. I don't have the ability to create new ones; what would have been a bit too much anyways because the Camillan army is very short-lived in EB (only some 30 years in the game, and these are the years where not so much would happen in most campaigns). If this mod would start in, say, 300 BC, allied units would be a must-have.

    It may at first seem odd to be levying "legions" of non-Romanized Gauls and Spaniards, but it did happen (think of Caesar's Galatian "legions" at Zela).
    or the "Cilician Legions" of Sulla as another example.

    But these are all post-Marian. I can't recall any occasion in which Legion-like units had been raised outside Italy in Polybian times.

    Question: with the Polybian reforms in this mod I am capable of recruiting proper Roman infantry (velites through triarii) in all of peninsular Italia, correct?
    Yes.

    Think of the "Bruttians" and "Samnites" as not necessarily "Bruttians" or "Samnites" but units representative of such a fighting style that was prominent in Italia at the time (much as EB team members have recommended thinking of Roman citizen infantry in the past--not necessarily as Roman citizens, but citizens and allies all fighting in a similar style).
    Yes, that was the idea behind it, and the reason to make them named.

    Disclaimer: my posts are to be considered my private opinion and not offical statements by the EB Team

  23. #83
    Member Member TWFanatic's Avatar
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    Default Re: Roman Allied Legions

    Quote Originally Posted by TWFanatic View Post
    I was thinking of adding the legionary_name attribute to other units. I hope I am not leaching off of your modding expertise when I ask you if I would have to do anything else in order to make them get the parentheses with the name of the province they were recruited in after the unit name. Also, would I be correct in assuming that ALL factions who recruit these units would receive these parentheses as well (not just the Romani)?
    It would be a violation of my code as a gentleman to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed person.-Veeblefester
    Ego is the anesthetic for the pain of stupidity.-me
    It is better to keep your mouth shut and be thought of as a fool than to open it and remove all doubt.-Sir Winston Churchill
    ΔΟΣ ΜΟΙ ΠΑ ΣΤΩ ΚΑΙ ΤΑΝ ΓΑΝ ΚΙΝΑΣΩ--Give me a place to stand and I will move the earth.-Archimedes on his work with levers
    Click here for my Phalanx/Aquilifer mod

  24. #84
    Whatever Member konny's Avatar
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    Default AW: Re: Roman Allied Legions

    Add the legionary_name attribute to the unit in EDU and define the name in descr_regions. When using a different name than the provincial you need to define that name in the respective lockup file.

    And yes, every unit will have the name and the number, even rebell units that spawn in the respective province.

    Other candidates for "labeling" would be for example Hoplites and Barbarian levies.

    Disclaimer: my posts are to be considered my private opinion and not offical statements by the EB Team

  25. #85
    Member Member Corky's Avatar
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    Default Re: Roman Allied Legions

    Hi,wondered if someone could help, trying to install this mod and followed your steps and tried the other things that people have done and i still cant get it to work. I have deleted the map.rvm file and its installed in the right places so i don't know what's going on. I'm trying to get the numbers for the legion first cohorts but every time i recruit a new first cohort it just says the title and 'legio'.

    Any help would be much appreciated.
    For the Emperor and People of Rome!

  26. #86

    Default Re: Roman Allied Legions

    First, thanks konny for this amazing mod coz it repairs the most interesting-yet-broken feature (for me) in EB 1.1: first cohort's legion number.

    I really want to install this mod however I have some questions first, as I am currently playing EB 1.1 with CityMod and ForceDiplomacy installed. Is this "Roman Allied Legions" mod compatible with my EB?

    Also, how about the other mods made by konny (money script and cursus honorum)? Are they also compatible and if they are, what is the correct order to install them over my EB 1.1+CityMod+ForceDiplomacy? It would be amazing if I can play my EB with all those five mods installed

    Thanks in advance. Any response will be appreciated.

  27. #87
    Whatever Member konny's Avatar
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    Default AW: Roman Allied Legions

    You should take a look at this collection:

    https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=105242

    Otherwse the cursus honorum only changes the trait file what is not affected by the allied legions.

    Disclaimer: my posts are to be considered my private opinion and not offical statements by the EB Team

  28. #88

    Default Re: Roman Allied Legions

    Konny, I applied your mod to get the First Cohorts to work. The first few I built worked like a charm (Legio I, II, III). However, after the third one, it returned to Legio I, and every after one I've built since remains Legio I.

  29. #89
    Whatever Member konny's Avatar
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    Default AW: Roman Allied Legions

    Uh? This is strange. When it works (and you say it does) it should give you about "I-XX" different First Legions. I have no idea in which txt.file these numbers are stored (they might also be in the exe), so I can't say what's going wrong.

    Disclaimer: my posts are to be considered my private opinion and not offical statements by the EB Team

  30. #90

    Default Re: Roman Allied Legions

    If it helps at all, I think (though I may be wrong) that I disbanded a first cohort right before the problem occured. Might this have something to do with it?

    I'll try reapplying the mod at some point, see if that fixes the problem. Although I'm drawn to a Ptolemai game right now...

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