questions on carthage.

[Vasiliyi]

I'm planning on starting a campaign as the carthagianians, and I was wondering what kind of army compositions the carthagianians had and where. I'm guessing they used a lot of regional troops like the iberian militias in iberia, the poly-libians dudes in africa and italy? Am I close? Thanks a lot for any info. Also if anyone has any tips for carthage then ill gladly take them.. Thanks in advance

[Tiberius Nero]

I suppose a realistic army composition would be around 30-50% Liby-Phoenicians and the rest regional troops and very few elephants. Having any sacred band units outside the province of Africa is really stretching credibility, unless the heartland of Carthage is under invasion.

[Centurio Nixalsverdrus]

Having any sacred band units outside the province of Africa is really stretching credibility, unless the heartland of Carthage is under invasion.

That's a pity. Why do you think so? I use Sacred Band Cavalry in the Alpes and in Egypt. At least it's the only heavy cavalry the Carthies get, except the Iberi Lanceari, which are very far to ship around for most theatres once Spain sugjugated. Plus they are really slow. Turtle speed all the way. I can't spare my Sacred Band Cavalry, sorry!

[Watchman]

'Sides, didn't the original infantry branch get wiped out in Sicily to begin with ? Besides each and every FM now a priori hauling a bunch of the mounted type along wherever he goes, natch...

[chairman]

Konny: were those chariots still around by EB's timeframe? If they were, it would add an incredible flavor to the W. Med, especially if Carthage could recruit chariots in Phoenicia, where they originally brought them from. I was noticing in the Recruitment Viewer that Carthage can't train any troops there (despite being a Homeland province ).

About army composition, Carthage used Liby-Phoenicians as the core in all of their armies, so keep them with you where-ever you go. In Hispania, use any Iberi troops you can, and ship them to other fronts when feasible. Numidian horsemen were hired to exclusion of almost all other native Numidians (except archers maybe). Carthage also used Celts/Gauls even before Hannibal's trek through S France and the Alps, so any available celtic mercinaries should be hired to show this. In Italy, Hannibal used lots of locals to fill the gaps left by Iberian and Libyan casualties, albeit not nearly as good as their predecessors, so Campanian Cavalry, Samnites, and Lucanians are good fill-ins for depleted Carthaginian armies campaigning in Italy. And local Hastati are a nice way to represent other tribes'/cities' forces that had started to copy Roman ways. Greek troops in Sicily and Magna Graecia help to show the heavy Greek presence in the forces that sided with Carthage in these areas.

As for native Carthaginian troops, again, the Libyans and Liby-Phoenicians should be the core of your forces. One or two units of elephants is about as much as you should have in any single stack, and the same goes for Sacred Band Cavalry, including your general(s), though 3 would not be too wrong. Elite African infantry/pikemen can be used in place of Libyan/Liby-Pho soldiers in more elite armies. Sacred Band units should be restricted in great numbers to Carthage, Atiqa, Adrumento and Sicily (yes, Sicily is completely kosher as it contains a Carthaginian homeland and they served here on numerous occasions).

So for possible army compositions try these ideas:

African Homelands:

2 Sacred Band Cavalry (includes generals)
Not more than 4 Sacred Band Infantry
no more than 4 elephants (usually should be about 2)
No more than 8 pike or elite infantry units (SBI, EAP, EAI)
up to 4 cavalry (not SBC or Numidian)
2-5 Numidian units (any kind, can include nobles or garamantines as well)
4-8 Libyan or Liby-Phoenician units
2-4 Iberian units on hand

Iberia:

up to 2 SBC (now should only be generals)
up to 2 elephants
no more than 4 elite infantry (SBI, EAP, EAI)
up to 3 Numidian units (mainly mounted skirmishers or archers)
2-6 Liby/Lby-Pho units
up to 4 total cavalry (not including Iberian or generals)
2-4 Iberian light troops (skirmishers, milites, caetrati)
2-4 Iberian medium Infantry
2-3 Iberian cavalry (remember to try to get some of those Iberian heavy cavalry!)

Italy or Southern Gaul:

up to 2 SBC (again should mainly be generals)
up to 2 elephants
no more than 4 elite infantry (SBI, EAP, EAI)
up to 2 Numidian units (should be nobles or mounted skirmishers)
2-4 Lby/Lby-Pho units
2-6 Iberian units (evenly divide between 3 branches but medium inf or cav can predominate if needed)
2-4 Italian units (Samnites are great, so are Campanian cav, Lucanians to fill light inf)
2-6 Celtic/Gallic units (key are missiles, cavalry and heavy infantry:neitos & gaesatae)


Misc:

-keep SBC, elephants and other elite units to a minimum of about 2 per unit
-Lby/Lby-Pho should have some presence in every Carthaginian army
-mercanaries are good: fill out your armies with any mercanary units present in the province; the Carthaginians made use of them, so should you
-BALEARIC SLINGERS: have 2 in every army when you can
-missile units in general are good to have your armies, be they iberian velites, numidian archers or skirmishers, celtic archers and slingers, lucanian light infantry or greek light troops
-greek units can be used in sicily and southern italy to fill in missile, heavy infantry and cavalry spots
-if you try to create imitation successor armies, the number of pikes (SBI, EAP) can be increased to form phalanxes of 4-8 units, but keep in mind to the need to balance with spearmen (Lby/Lby-Pho), assault (EAI, Iberian assault inf, scutarri, neitos), and cavalry (Citizen cav, SBC, Iberian cavalry, Celtic & Italian cavalry)


For tactics, use a mix of Roman manipular and Successor phalanxe styles. The ever famous Cannae set-up (something every would-be Carthaginian commander should be Very familiar with) might look something like this:

-Native: 2 EAI, 2 Lby-Pho Hvy Inf, 1 SBC (general)
-African: 2 Numidian mounted skirm., 1 Numidian skirmisher/archer
-Hispanic: 1 of any med/hvy Iberian cav, 2 Iberian light infantry (velites, caetrati), 2 Iberian med infantry, 1 Balearic slinger
-Celtic: 2 of any Gallic cav, 2 Gallic light infantry (archers/slingers/gaeroas), 2Gallic heavy infantry (botroas, neitos, gaesatae)

This should equal 20 units, of which 6 is missile/light infantry, 6 is cavalry, and 8 med-hvy infantry. Put the Iberian and Gallic cav on the left flank, then 1 EAI+1 Lby-Pho, then mix the Iberian and Gallic infantry in the middle with center curved forward and stronger, again 1 EAI+Lby-Pho, then the Numidian horse and SBC, in front of the infantry mix the missile/light infantry. That should be a pretty good approximation of Hannibal's battle plan.

Good luck with your campaigning as the noble Qart-Hadistim!

Chairman

[konny]

Konny: were those chariots still around by EB's timeframe?

To my knowlegde, hardly any details about the African wars of Karthago (of which there must have been a plenty) are known. Chariots are not mentioned in the battles against the Romans in Africa, ASFAIK. So they were certainly out of use in the 3rd Century.

[Watchman]

I was noticing in the Recruitment Viewer that Carthage can't train any troops there (despite being a Homeland province ).

Well you know, it was their mother city... round half a millenia earlier.

Anyway, as the Carthies' Canaanite war chariots go, I once saw it mentioned somewhere they used those as a terror and distruption weapon - until they met Pyrrhus's elephants.

Let's just say the Romans weren't the only ones who could recognise a better idea when they saw it.

[bovi]

You could start a campaign and read the unit descriptions.

[Strategos Alexandros]

The best formation I have found for carthage is Phalanx and spearmen in the centre, Swordsmen on the flanks and a wing of cavalry or elephants also on the flanks.

[konny]

In Africa the Karthagians used thousands of chariots, at least they had the stables for these numbers in the city. Of course, like every other polis around the Mediterr she had the militia forces (probably armed like Greek Hoplites). To this came allied forces, for example the levy of subjugated Numidian and Spanish tribes. And then in a growing numbers local mercenaries.

If you like, the armed forces of Karthago were the exact opposite of the Roman army: while the Romans payed much effords in uniformation, hardly two Karthagian armies would have looked the same.

[Vasiliyi]

Wow, thanks a lot konny and to all that helped out. My campiagn as the carthies is going fairly well. I'm busy subjegating the numidian tribes. They're a pain