To wedge or not to wedge?

[Lord_Megahertz]

I have tried wedge alot, and I can't use it effectively. Any advice on how to use it?

[Caius]

I have tried wedge alot, and I can't use it effectively. Any advice on how to use it?

How do you use it?

[Lord_Megahertz]

I don't know how to use it effectively. I've tried it while flanking and with a head on charge.

[Praetor Rick]

I have tried wedge alot, and I can't use it effectively. Any advice on how to use it?

My experience is that a charge in wedge formation tends not to have the killing impact of a charge in line formation, but does tend to disorder the target a great deal more, sometimes even charging straight through almost like elephants or chariots might. The result is fewer casualties inflicted directly, but a unit that is far more vulnerable to subsequent charges for a critical time until it can properly reform.

However, I rarely use wedge formation, because I prefer hammer and anvil type tactics, charging enemies from the flanks or rear where they don't need to be disordered to suffer horrendous casualties. Wedge, to me, seems mostly useful for frontal charges, which I try to avoid - a legacy of playing many short campaigns as Roman factions, stuck with the lackluster Equites as the bulk of my cavalry wing.

[Raz]

Try sending a unit of heavy infantry in after the initial wedge charge. As they would've been disordered, the steadiness of the infantry charge should break them... in fact, I might have to try this tactic myself.

[Praetor Rick]

Try sending a unit of heavy infantry in after the initial wedge charge. As they would've been disordered, the steadiness of the infantry charge should break them... in fact, I might have to try this tactic myself.

Yeah, or a unit of heavy cavalry in a line formation. Heavy cav are also the best wedge users, since they can survive the initial charge-through better, and generally have better impact on charging anyway. Light cav should typically only use wedge for a charge on the rear of a unit that's about to be engaged from the front by a unit of infantry, although I generally prefer to charge *AFTER* the infantry has engaged, and in line formation, for maximum casualties.

If your general can form wedge - don't. Ever. Seriously. Your general himself will be the guy at the point, which means that he will die, hideously, painfully, and quickly.

Note that the effects of wedge formation seem rather subtle to me. I'm going on general impressions, because the wedge formation doesn't seem to make a huge difference. It *SEEMS* to inflict fewer casualties but mess up the formation more and be better suited to allowing the cavalry to charge straight through the entire enemy formation, but I'd never swear that that's what it does under oath.

[Hound of Ulster]

I normally don't use wedge formation. I just run over the opposing infantry with my cataphracts.

[Lord_Megahertz]

cool, thanks alot!

[Lord_Megahertz]

What is the difference between flaming and normal arows?

[Bartholemew-Varath]

I find that if you use a wedge, your aim should be to break right through the opposite side of the enemy formation, wheras a normal formation you should just try to flank them and hit them hard all over. I would suggest using a wedge if the enemy formaion is very thin, like a 3 layered phalanx or the likes. Also you can be assured that the units you hit, using the wedge, are going to die (in the part your horses actually hit) so if your infantry are on the other side then they can tear right through the enemy formation.

I believe that wedges on Medieval 2 Total War are much more effective at pulling off a successful attack with wedge on that in this

[Bartholemew-Varath]

Sorry about the double post, im just going to answer this question:

What is the difference between flaming and normal arows?

The difference between flaming arrows and normal arrows are that flaming arrow often do more damage, have a greater effect on enemy morale, but are less accurate, so you are less likely to hit the enemy, and more likely to hit your own unit aswell
Normal arrows dont have any of these, but they are much more effective if your in a rush, as they are more accurate than flaming arrows an can usually get a kill just as easily.

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

I'm not too certain, yet I do believe that flaming arrows don't actually cause any more damage than standard arrows. I believe that the effect is only phycological due to the damage being a little more visable. It could be attributed to the inaccuracy, but in my experiences hits from flaming arrows are just as likley to wound a soilder/be deflected than hits from normal arrows.

I may be incorrect though, so don't quote me on it.

Flaming arrows also appear to fire slightly slower, and are the only unit based method of successfully damaging a seige weapon (excluding ladders and the higher level siege towers appearing outside cities with a large stone wall or bigger).

[Thundermace]

I personally dislike wedge formation. And, as mentioned above, it is not that effective. Yet, using it DOWNHILL, in my impression, is devastating (of course I don't recommend doing this against phalanx or some VERY high - morale heavy infantry... but anyway who thinks frontal charges against those reasonable!?!?!?! )
As for arrows - except against scythed chariots, elephants and siege equipment, they don't appear to be particularly effective. Yea, it's fun watching enemy set afire wahahahahahaha
but... let us be practical - normal arrows do more damage, rate of fire is faster and even ammo is somewhat more (or at least this is my impression)

[RLucid]

My impression is that it works best against troops in an open formation, or a thin line, which can be broken.

Does anyone use it regularly in "Alexander" fashion, to burst through gaps between units, and create a larger breach for follow on units to turn a line?

[Lord_Megahertz]

Thanks, you guys have helped me alot! I normally use flaming arrows, but I guess I should reconsider that.

[Timsup2nothin]

The wedge has a couple good uses.

In a frontal assault it will be 'aimed' straight at the center of the target, which will put your unit's best guy directly on the target unit's top guy. Killing their leader will immediately reduce the unit's capabilities (note, be sure your top guy will indeed be able to kill their top guy). If you can get a clear shot at their general's unit this is very efficient for taking him out.

The other main use I have for the wedge is cleaning up routers. The wedge formation seems like it will 'steer' without stopping to reform much better than other formations and I can run down a lot more victims.

[Quirinus]

Units are arranged according to ability? I had some inkling that not everyone in a unit might have the same experience, seeing as how you can lose or gain veterancy by losing some men, but I had no idea it was arranged according to ability, or that the veterans are arranged in the middle.

[Timsup2nothin]

Units are arranged according to ability? I had some inkling that not everyone in a unit might have the same experience, seeing as how you can lose or gain veterancy by losing some men, but I had no idea it was arranged according to ability, or that the veterans are arranged in the middle.

I don't know about all the veterans, but the unit leader is at the unit flag, front and center, and dead on the bullseye for a wedge charge. Of course your unit leader is the front guy in the wedge, which also makes the wedge a very effective tool for removing a defective general/heir...put him under the command of a higher ranking general, put his unit in a wedge, and fire him off against a tough target.

[RLucid]

Yep, the central frontal assault charge does seem like a fairly reliable way to get rid of unwanted cavalrymen, particularly against spear infantry factions.

[o_loompah_the_delayer]

I dont particularlly like the wedge either. But based on very few observations:

- if I have got my cavalry around completely behind the enemy then I charge the enemy in the back in a a line.

- if time is short, or going around would be dangerous, I charge into a flank using wedge. As the enemy infantry is usually no more than six deep, there are only six men facing me as it were so chargin in a line seems silly. the wedge seems to break up the enemy unit more and then my infantry that was spinning them can break through.

- Alexander style: never tried it. I always deploy cav on the flanks except the general. If my own men are wavering I charge with the general and if the enemy rout then there is ofcourse a hole which I rush in to exploit. Other wise cav is for dealing with enemy cav and flanking.

Regarding flaming arrows,
- On the attack I would use flaming arrows as I want to close as quickly as possible minimizing the time I am under fire from their missiles. The morale damage seems more useful than however few extra casualties normal arrows would give.

- On the defence, when my archers are in front I would use fire again for the morale damage. When the enemy closes in and my archers withdraw behind my infantry, I switch to normal arrows as I dont want the more erratic friendly fire hitting my inf or cav my and I want to kill as many of the enemy as possible.

[batemonkey]

I'm definatley gonna try using the wedge to push apart enemy fomations.

As for flaming arrows i've noticed that they work well against well armoured targets and normal arrows work well against poorly armoured troops.