hastati vs principes

[spqr_arcani]

Some background:
I'm early on in my Romani campaign and have conquered the Italian peninsula but my economy is not a powerhouse yet. So, whatever I buy consider the bang for the buck. This is still the Camillan era.

So, I was comparing the hastati and principes.
Statswise and historically, principes are the more experienced troops,
and their superiority is noticeable on the battlefield. They also have better
equipment because of their standing/wealth in society.

On the other hand, they only cost 40 mnai more than hastati to recruit, and the upkeep is comparable. I try to have proportions of hastati/principes/triarii/other based on my imagination on how it might have been in Roman times. But based on recruiting costs alone, the motivation is to pick the pricipes over hastati (bang for the buck).

I know it varies, but what were approximate the ratio ranges in those times anyway? I'd imagine something like

1.2-1.5 hastati : 1 pricipe : 0.6-1 triarii


Was there a particular reason why principes are not significantly more costly than hastati? I'm just curious.

[Watchman]

What the unit-cost formulas add up to, pretty much. Recall that if you're talking about the Camillians, the equipement difference amounts pretty much to the pectoral plate (basic shortsword costing the exact same as a spear).

[Olimpian]

Well most people around here use hastati fot role-playing reasons.But if you're looking for bang-for-the-buck and less historical accuracy...principes all the way.I think their biggest advantage over hastati is that the latter is vulnerable to missile fire far more and, since they are used in the first line, will count for most of your casualties in battle,while principes are better armoured and perform better in the front line.

EDIT:And Camilian principes are better against cavalry because they have a spear

[Xurr]

I use the principes pretty much exclusively. Typically I'll put 2 Triarii in an army and the rest of the line infantry is all principes. A full stack army will look something like this:

1 General
10 Principes
2 Triarii
4 Accensi or archers of some sort
3 Cavalry (usually heavy)

I do however use 5 or 6 Hastati for auto resolve battles with rebels/slaves.

An interesting note is that Polybian Hastati are nearly as good as Camillan Principes. They have a lower attack strength but have better moral and skill.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Some background:
I'm early on in my Romani campaign and have conquered the Italian peninsula but my economy is not a powerhouse yet. So, whatever I buy consider the bang for the buck. This is still the Camillan era.

So, I was comparing the hastati and principes.
Statswise and historically, principes are the more experienced troops,
and their superiority is noticeable on the battlefield. They also have better
equipment because of their standing/wealth in society.

On the other hand, they only cost 40 mnai more than hastati to recruit, and the upkeep is comparable. I try to have proportions of hastati/principes/triarii/other based on my imagination on how it might have been in Roman times. But based on recruiting costs alone, the motivation is to pick the pricipes over hastati (bang for the buck).

I know it varies, but what were approximate the ratio ranges in those times anyway? I'd imagine something like

1.2-1.5 hastati : 1 pricipe : 0.6-1 triarii


Was there a particular reason why principes are not significantly more costly than hastati? I'm just curious.

The ratio in the Camillian era is 1:1:1, in the Polybian it's 2:2:1.

[spqr_arcani]

Cool, I learned so much within an hour!

I'm the type that likes to roleplay somewhat, but not hardcore at it.
So I'll still get hastatis despite the bang-for-the-buck consideration.
I'll also try going for the triumph thingy but it's not a must.

I haven't played the EB 1.1 long enough, so it could be that in Polybian
the prices might be modified a little. If I recall correctly, the 1.0 campaign that I abandoned had hastatis and principes with more noticeable recruiting difference.

I was also surprised to learn from playing EB that principes had spears as well. For the longest time (with RTW vanilla and other mods), principes were simply a more veteran version of hastatis.

PS. And by the way, I have no idea why a smiley face appears at the beginning of the title every time I post. I actually don't smile that much. :)

[Ibrahim]

speaking of spears, isn't the latin for a spear=hasta? kind of sounds Ironic: the Hastati have swords, but the hastas are with the principes; you'd figure the opposite, but no...

[Watchman]

AFAIK it comes from the Hastati once, before the general adoption of the pilum and in all probability also before the rest of the heavy infantry started to carry throwing-spears too, having carried a javelin called - unimaginatively enough - hasta lancea; hence the name.

Or that's what I read somewhere long ago.

[Ibrahim]

I read it too, but it still makes no sense...the contradictions in this life really amusing..

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

AFAIK it comes from the Hastati once, before the general adoption of the pilum and in all probability also before the rest of the heavy infantry started to carry throwing-spears too, having carried a javelin called - unimaginatively enough - hasta lancea; hence the name.

Or that's what I read somewhere long ago.

It's just as likely to come from the Servian Army where the 2nd and 3rd classes were defined by their role as spearmen, rather than skirmishers and slingers.

[Ibrahim]

speaking of lancea, didn't the word lance come from it? hmmm I wonder