Massive Population Die-Out

[Spartan198]

I've had two of these so far. No plagues or any other disasters. Armies,fleets,city populations,even my family tree,all literally cut down by half.

Has this happened to anyone else?

[Darkvicer98]

No i haven't seen this before. What was your population when it happened and after?

[Bartholemew-Varath]

Im usually stumped over over-population, although my family tree does tend to go badly sometimes when i send like 5 generals into battle and they all die (trust me, i fought the macedonians with 5 generals, the flanking didnt go particularly well)

Oh and armies especially, i dont reallly build armies as i am too busy swimming and pools of gold, but they sometimes get so small i hjave to rebuild

[Spartan198]

What was your population when it happened and after?

I don't remember all the exact numbers,but I remember most recently that my first city had just reached huge level a few turns prior and had a pop of about 25,800 give or take. After this apparent "cataclysm" struck,that city's pop dropped to around 12,000.
I had half-stack fleets of triremes,around 300 or so men strong,that suddenly dropped to a little more than 150.
I had a full-stack of Spartans garrisoned in Sparta,and they were reduced to a point where I was able to combine them all into a single unit and still need retraining to replenish it to full strength.
And I had over a hundred family members,both generals and wives and children,before this happened,and afterward even they were reduced to around 20 individuals. Even newborn babies died!

[Gaius Scribonius Curio]

Sounds like Zeus has struck down the Spartans for their impudence.

Seriously, it sounds like a bug.

[Bartholemew-Varath]

I dont think its a bug, just a very unfortunate series of events, it just shows you the RTW gods dont like Spartans Was it a plague? Thats the only thing i would have thought might do it. The plague in Macedonia event might trigger it. But ive never seen that many people killed by the plague, or babies either

[Livy]

He said "no plagues or disasters" so it was probably a bug like Curio said. I am sure it won't be classed as cheating to reload a save. Weird one.

[Spartan198]

I dont think its a bug, just a very unfortunate series of events, it just shows you the RTW gods dont like Spartans Was it a plague? Thats the only thing i would have thought might do it. The plague in Macedonia event might trigger it. But ive never seen that many people killed by the plague, or babies either

No,no plague. I've disabled plagues anyway because I can't figure out a good way to manage and prevent them from spreading. And it wasn't just in Sparta,it happened to every city under my control at that time,my naval fleets,even my family tree.
It's mind-boggling.

[RLucid]

Weird! Doesn't quarantine and building sewers etc work for you?

Perhaps the AI is moving around plague carrying spies to reinfect your cities, may be deploying counter-spies would detect and deter such actions.

[Gaius Scribonius Curio]

If you disabled plagues, then I don't think there is another explanation other than... a bug.

Even with plagues turned on I don't believe that in one turn it can strike everywhere and kill 50%+ of the population, including navies.

I honestly don't believe that this is the case (I just don't see how it can affect an ongoing game), but did you maybe change the unit size options? Have you been modding any files? Was it the first turn in that session? Or was it just completely random?

I think a reload is in order. I wonder if it will happen again......................?

[Quirinus]

It probably wasn't changing unit sizes, since that typically doesn't affect population size or family members....

Plus, cutting down a full stack of Spartans to the point where it's less than 1/20 of its strength (at least, that's what I get from his description) is just weird.

What version patch are you playing? Any tinkering of the game files, like GSC suggested?

[RLucid]

Perhaps (a slim possibility) it's a pre-plague/cataclysm development feature that occurs silently if you don't have natural disasters enabled. Would allow play testing of affects of sudden catastrophes on factions.

Still wonder why plague is "impossible to control", that sounds odd, especially when so many advise against farm improvements due to over-population troubles.

[Spartan198]

Even with plagues turned on I don't believe that in one turn it can strike everywhere and kill 50%+ of the population, including navies.

I've never had anything even remotely that catasrophic. Even my worst plague in an old BI campaign that encompassed nearly a third of the WRE's cities (after annexing the entirity of the ERE) didn't kill that many people.

I honestly don't believe that this is the case (I just don't see how it can affect an ongoing game), but did you maybe change the unit size options? Have you been modding any files? Was it the first turn in that session? Or was it just completely random?

It doesn't make the game unplayable,I just have a few turns where I'm severely vulnerable to invasion while my existing forces are retraining. So no CTDs or anything like that.
I've only experienced two so far,and both seem to have been random (granted I'm only on my second campaign,but...).
And it slipped my mind to mention that it's the latest release of the XGM mod.
.......I'm sorry.
As for the modding,I have five basic changes as of XGM 5.6.7:
1. No plagues (Turns out I'd messed up on this one,and it was the cause of the problem detailed in my "Unknown CTD in XGM" threads,but it's all fixed now. Even the best modders make mistakes,right? )
2. Removed Marian Reforms stipulations on on Equites and Spartan Perioci (that's the in-game spelling,BTW,which I suspect is a misspelled form of periokoi) units.
3. Changed all unit recruitement to 1 turn.
4. Changed all army upkeep to 0.
5. Removed testudo in favor of shieldwall for all Roman legionary troops (makes them better at absorbing charges and holding battlelines,without affecting their own offensive charge -- recommended for anyone like me who feels Hastati,Principes,and Legionary Cohort units can't hold up well in defensive positions)

[Bartholemew-Varath]

Well then, i have no idea what might have happened, im fairly new to RTW, but im pretty sure i know enough to see that this wasnt possible in my game, were you playing BI or the original? I havent done that much on BI, so it might be able to happen on that

[Bartholemew-Varath]

Sorry for the after-post, i was typing when you sent your message, i have no idea then, i dont play RTW mods...

[Spartan198]

Still wonder why plague is "impossible to control", that sounds odd, especially when so many advise against farm improvements due to over-population troubles.

It's like dinarii (or mnai,in EB),I'm just terrible at managing it. That's why if a coastal city was infected,I left both the city itself and the port vulnerable to brigande and pirate blockade respectively. If no trade caravans or fleets can access them,they can't export the plague to other cities and factions.
Though on the occasion I conquered an infected city,massacring the population usually irradicated the plague the majority of the time.
As for over-population,I've got a simple but challenging remedy: Evacuate FMs and troops,let the population revolt,then lay siege and retake the city,either massacring or enslaving the population. This is especially helpful with huge cities,as I once had Athens peak at around a 100,000 inhabitants before riots and revolts became commonplace.