Phoenicians ?

[Barry Soteiro]

Were the Phoenicians still a different people at the time of the mod ? If so don't they deserve an unit of their own ? How would it look like ?

[DaCrAzYmOfO]

Well you had the carthaginians who were pheonician settlers.....

Aside from that they shoudl still have been some pheonicians around the near-east...especially in the settlement called Tyde..which was Tyre...the settlement that Alexander assaulted...which was a pheonician city. Under persian control that is.

O.O

;P

[Gebeleisis]

carthaginians are Phoenicians descendents :)
carthage is a Phoenican founded colony

[Dhampir]

IIRC, Carthaginians are Phoenicians.

edit- I must type real slow.

[Watchman]

One word: Carthage.

[Barry Soteiro]

I know that but would the phoenicians of phenicy have kept enough differences or were they like greeks or carthaginians ? It would be cool to have some "native" phenicians units after all if they deserve it

[DaCrAzYmOfO]

Carthaginians ARE pheonicians, it dont get any closer than that.

now if you are asking on pheonician regionals at tyde...idk....ask the team lol ;P

[Maeran]

The Carthaginians were the main Phoenician city in this time period. As I understand it, any surviving 'free' Phoenician colonies were part of the Carthaginian hegemony at this time.

The Phoenician homelands had been overrun in Alexander the Great's day (by Alexander I think) and were part of the Seleucid lands at the beginning of our time frame.

By and large the Phoenicians weren't soldiers, and when they did fight, they adapted other people's weapons to suit themselves. Carthage is the best example of that. Indeed, the only example I can think of.

I type slower than you all! Hurrah!

[Watchman]

Pretty sure they were still around - Hell, last I heard the Assyrians survive to this day - but they'll simply be part of the existing units found in the region.

[DaCrAzYmOfO]

Pheonicians=sailers and traders, not necessarily good warriors.

Pretty much seen through their continued defeats at the hands of the assyrians...persians....macedonians....later on romans.... >.>

[Barry Soteiro]

OK so they were not enough numerous or different to deserve they own unit. Too bad.

[DaCrAzYmOfO]

lol.....play carthage...you will get all the pheonician units you want

somehow i dont feel you got the point of your own thread lol >.>

[Watchman]

Pretty much seen through their continued defeats at the hands of the assyrians...persians....macedonians....later on romans.... >.>

They used to be pretty big and tough back in the day, tho'. Bronze Age until the Assyrians at least, and the Tyreans gave Alex a serious fight.

Just not big enough to survive the transition into true superpower era, as heralded by the Persians, as an independent polity in the Levant.

[Barry Soteiro]

lol.....play carthage...you will get all the pheonician units you want

somehow i dont feel you got the point of your own thread lol >.>

I just wanted to know if "native" phenicians had some kind of military tradition who could grant them an unique unit, even a crappy,one...

[DaCrAzYmOfO]

lol I was about to start jabbing you with a stick until i realized what you actually meant;

well....i guess they could ... since like watchman says they were in Tyre mostly...which would translate to the city of TYDE in EB

By EB's time frame they would have pretty much been completely hellenized....so the best thing that would have been made would have been some kind of Machimoi-esque unit....being a hellenic unit with a dark pheonician skin....which would of course not be too useful....

So yeah, but if you look at it this way, I think if you take over Tyde you can get family members that end up coming from there, and there you go, you got a truly native pheonician fightin for yah :D

[Watchman]

Pretty sure the major coastal settlement in Levant between Antioch and Judea were Phoenician you know. That was their old heartland. A lot of different people got mixed in since then, but in any case, I think it can be safely assumed the urban and rural troops - particularly the militia/levy types - as well as naval forces raised in the region include their fair share of ethnic Phoenicians in the rolls.

[Barry Soteiro]

So we can hope for some phoenician militia in EB2 ?

[DaCrAzYmOfO]

Oh....true, very true, didnt consider the settlements just that one big city lmao

Ahh, well back to the main question....the levy would prolly represented by pantadapodi, but would the rich nobles have been inducted into the pezhetairoi phalanx, or would they have enough influence to accompany the AS as heavy cavalry?

Or would they just be set aside since they were pheonicians, and not greeks?

[Foot]

Nope, but if you recruited some akontistai or Pantodapoi from the area of the Levant you would expect to see some phoenician men amongst them (but you'll just have to imagine that).

Foot

[hoom]

Well, I'd like to see some sort of regional unit in the Phoenecian homeland that Carthage would be able to recruit.
Retaking the homeland is part of their victory conditions but they only get Pantodapoi, mercenary generals & catapaults.

Admitedly Alexander slaughtered the bulk of the population of Tyre but Sidon had surrendered & I think even provided ships that were used for the assault on Tyre so there should be some phoenicians around still.

[Centurio Nixalsverdrus]

Crazy Mofo,

Tyde is in northwestern Spain on the EB map. I might be wrong but iirc Tyros is represented through the port of Sidon, Phoinike.

I find it a bit strange that Carthage can't recruit anything in Phoinike. Why? They are culturally the same at all. Phoenician Citizen Militia should be at least recruitable there. Or is it and I didn't notice?

[DaCrAzYmOfO]

O.O lmao...my bad

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

I thought back in the 07x days, the Carthaginians did get some Carthage-only units in Sidon (not uniques, simply the same kind of things you got from Kart-Hadast).

[Eduorius]

Phalangite levies of the Seleucids and Ptolemaics also have Phoenicians.

If you check out, Carthage have very few 100% Phoenician descendant units. The Punic Militia, the Sacred Band, and some cavalry units.