AI Suggestion: Shorter Wars

[Mithridates VI Eupator]

I agree with you, artaxerxes.
Many small kindoms is both a lot more fun, and more historically accurate, than a couple of swelling blobs, devouring everything and everyone who happens to stand in their way.
It is probably not the easiest thing to implement, if at all possible, but I cincerely hope it will work.

[The General]

I support this proposition, too.

Death to the "Deaths"!

[Ayce]

I support this proposition, too.

Death to the "Deaths"!

But, in that period, there was always 1-2 „Deaths” (like our good friend the SPQR). One of them is certainly the player. But he needs a challenger, so I suggest keeping one faction at random at the start of the game with a total war AI. (maybe random between an „expansionist freak” and a „strong big regional power” type of AI)

[Mithridates VI Eupator]

But, in that period, there was always 1-2 „Deaths” (like our good friend the SPQR). One of them is certainly the player. But he needs a challenger, so I suggest keeping one faction at random at the start of the game with a total war AI. (maybe random between an „expansionist freak” and a „strong big regional power” type of AI)

Well, this is the thing that we don't really want. Sure, the SPQR should be expansionist, but when you have a game with such detail and diversity as EB, you'd really want to enjoy all those 30 factions in the same game, even though you might not always be at war with them, or even in contact with them. For me, just knowing that they are there is enough.

Then, when some of these would-be ghengises come knocking on your door, and like 10 of the other minor AI-kingdoms have had their doors knocked in and stampeded into the ground, some of that realistic feeling is gone.

By this, I don't mean that the game should be easier, or that AI factions should not expand, or try to conquer you, only that they might do this in a more "modest" way.

Then again, some factions, like SPQR and Parthia, should be at least somewhat more agressive than others, but not to the point where you have a world that is half red, half purple, with some colorful dots clinging on to the corners.

[Cartaphilus]

I totally agree whith you, Mithridates.

And another suggestion: try to make some penalty for oath-breakers. Even the romans try to maintain the truces they have given (hahahaha).

[Patriote]

I have the feeling that wars drag on ad vitam eternam simply because empires have "infinite" resources. They can pop out units faster than their treasure is going down. In real life(from what I know and can guess) ironically as an empire gets bigger, it also get harder to defend and control thus humongous amounts of funds were put into armed forces to control those territories.

It wasn't unusual for winning factions to be bankrupted after a series of wars, look at the situation of France after all the wars of Louis XIV. It became the greatest kingdom of Europe but its economic situation led to the revolution of its people later on (it is a rather minimalist explanation but you get the point)

In EB (although its been reduced A LOT compared to others TW games) empire get stronger and stronger as they acquire new lands because each new city pump resources into the central treasury. Also, as battles are fought, soldiers die reducing the upkeep cost meaning a bigger income to recruit more soldiers.. then war without end.

So maybe if someone would come up a solution such a script penalizing empires too big and/or making the deaths of soldiers not a good thing money speaking (I know I know always a new script) in combination with unit pool limitation, better AI diplomacy and multiple units recruitment (that can get a treasury down pretty quickly hehe) we'll have a situation where even mighty empires can get bankrupt; hoping the AI can cope with that and not just start acting stupidly

Anyways, just my 2cents, cheers

[Cartaphilus]

Yeah, the economy is one of the major problems of any empire.
The romans, the spanish, the french, and so on.
The unending wars in the borders were a bleeding of men and gold.
The spanish lost our empire in the Nederlands' revolt (two hundred years before we lost America, but we were doomed since the death of the great Duke of Alba).

I hope the economy will be a problem for the major empires in EB2. Now, only the barbarian factions have some troubles with money, but only if you try to build (cities and armies) without a stop.

[artaxerxes]

I'm glad you agree (I was utterly convinced that war-loving people would flame my idea to death;) - not that I don't like the occasional world war, but it just doesn't feel so realistic).

I guess, in retrospect, that it's too late to implement this in EB2 (I don't know ANYTHING about programming, but I guess its a fundamental change that you ought to do at the beginning of a project - though I might be wrong). But I wanted to suggest it, cos' sometimes you don't want to "create the great Roman empire" or "restore Alexander's empire" or "conquer all as the Pahlava" - sometimes you want to try and be Pontus - and NOT expand beyond your natural barriers, but rather try how it must have been being an actual king of Pontus, whose chief concerns lay with neighbouring provinces, and not with globe-spanning empires. But every time you try this, you end up getting swallowed by some Galactic Empire-size opponent ;)

Also it feels unrealistic that empires spring up, which contain most of Northern Europe and Russia - and which are stable... even if Barbarian chiefs ever dominated such vast areas, they didn't do it for very long. But the AI builds such an empire, and its infrastructure seems to work as well (in preventing it from falling apart) as that of the great civilisations of the ancient wotld

This is NOT meant as a criticism of the EB team, and all examples of unrealistic AI's are given as humoristic pictures - I hope people understand, that Im not making fun of EB in general, since it isnt the game as such, which is in any way faulty, its rather some delicate features of the AI (and AI's of all games of all ages have always had features which we can only laugh at)

2 reasons why EB team shouldn't think I'm criticizin them: ;)

1) It is a fault of the Total War series and not of EB particularly - had the same problem in Medieval 1, when Spanish and Egyptians (just fx) would each conquer half the world and trash my tiny, esotic Aragonese city state ;)

2) EB has improved the game SO MUCH in SO MANY OTHER WAYS that its quite unbelievable. The addition of most of Asia really had me falling in love - to be able to fight in the ancient lands of Babylonians and Persians - instead of, as in RTW and Medieval 1, just to touch on the western ouskirts of those places - I mean, I LOVE that :) ... And with RTW I NEVER actually felt, that I was back in time - it really disappointed me... EB feels like a time machine - if it wasn't for the

couple of swelling blobs, devouring everything and everyone who happens to stand in their way.

[DefenderofFuture]

I'm under the impression that Lusted is right about this: CA has been making its games progressively easier to mod, and they've publicly stated that Empire is going to be even more so. I don't know exactly how AI coding works, but I'm pretty positive it's a lot easier to change behavior in M2TW than it was in RTW.

[hellenes]

I'm under the impression that Lusted is right about this: CA has been making its games progressively easier to mod, and they've publicly stated that Empire is going to be even more so. I don't know exactly how AI coding works, but I'm pretty positive it's a lot easier to change behavior in M2TW than it was in RTW.

IIRC there was NO way to mod AI in RTW...

[Mithridates VI Eupator]

Yeah!

I've read that the AI in M2TW is much more moddable than the AI in RTW.
I hope that it is possible to implement that which we have been talking about here. The EB-team has worked miracles before...
And, as you said, artaxerxes, it's not the EB-teams fault. It's the vanilla AI that is the problem.
I'll keep my fingers crossed...

[Olaf The Great]

Like a reverse "Lord the Konion of Hellas may declare war on us if we attack (SETTLEMENT)!"

[Hax]

Well, I remember playing the Seljuks in BC, and Armenia did accept a ceasefire after say five years.

I gave them their homeland back, in return for 6000 florins.