Proctectorates

[artaxerxes]

Hi. I know I ask a lot of questions in here, but this game really fascinates me and I'd like to learn more about it to fully appreciate its details. So here goes

What exactly IS a proctectorate - if you have one, do they pay you money or do you have to protect them. Also, will they remain a proctectorate forever or do they have the ability to rebel. And if I were to become the proctectorate of another country (stupid Ptolemies ask me every time I exterminate one of their cities) would that make me lose the game?

Also, does anybody have any suggestions as to how I make someone my proctectorate - what are the tricks, cos I can't do it, my enemies always end up dead instead. But fx there is a 2-settlement Pontus right on my border. If I were to take Sinope from them and surround their capitol, would I have a chance of making them a proctectorate?

thx in anticipation

[QuintusSertorius]

Protectorates count towards your province count for victory conditions. The protectorate gives their protector any surpluses from their treasury every turn.

You'll almost never get the AI to agree to becoming one without Force Diplomacy.

[artaxerxes]

ok thx :)

[Horst Nordfink]

Here's the link for Force Diplomacy

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=80763

I recommend it, it's very useful.

[QuintusSertorius]

Useful? I'd go further than that. It's necessary for anything like sensible diplomacy in the game, especially if you're playing on VH campaign difficulty where the AI won't even accept trade rights.

[artaxerxes]

hehe nice :)

[/Bean\]

I think its annoying that the enemy basically always refuses Protectorate offers, even if they are being attacked by several factions...and also refuseing to pay reperations after a war. But Force Dipolomacy should sort this . WHile on subject, how come cities (etc) WERE forced to pay reperations and such? Presumably to stop the victor from destroying them, but then why doesnt this work in the game very often? Is the AI stubboness just hardcoded into the game?

[Ibrahim]

ya, I know the feeling; I once wooped carthage like a little kid for 20 years (80 turns), and then demanded protectorate (I was besieging carthage). I threatened violent action, but they refused, and that turn, the depleted garrison fell with no fight, and carthage was sacked..they eventually caved in to a peace treaty, but were not protectorates.

[stupac]

I think its annoying that the enemy basically always refuses Protectorate offers, even if they are being attacked by several factions...and also refuseing to pay reperations after a war. But Force Dipolomacy should sort this . WHile on subject, how come cities (etc) WERE forced to pay reperations and such? Presumably to stop the victor from destroying them, but then why doesnt this work in the game very often? Is the AI stubboness just hardcoded into the game?

Is it really that surprising considering that CA expected the player to merely conquer the world as quickly as they could, never intending to put this into a realistic time frame. Why bother with diplomacy then, only gets in the way. And since vanilla was so incredibly easy, they needed the hard difficulty levels to give the AI more money and keep them on the player's back the whole time.

[V.T. Marvin]

I have said this earlier: DO NOT USE PROTECTORATES IN EB! It is beacuse the protectorate gives you all its surplus money. But with EB money assistance script, it gets immediately a significant money assistance which is in turn transfered to you again, and again, and again... Basically, having a protectorate in EB means a huge exploit just giving you an incredible ammount of cash each turn, which is neither realistic nor fun.

As a workaround I would recommend to use force diplomacy to obtain an equivalent of protectorate, i.e.: alliance, trade rights, military acces (and, optionally, even some reasonable tribute). It gives you all the benefits without that money cheat.

[Pezlu]

I have said this earlier: DO NOT USE PROTECTORATES IN EB! It is beacuse the protectorate gives you all its surplus money. But with EB money assistance script, it gets immediately a significant money assistance which is in turn transfered to you again, and again, and again... Basically, having a protectorate in EB means a huge exploit just giving you an incredible ammount of cash each turn, which is neither realistic nor fun.

As a workaround I would recommend to use force diplomacy to obtain an equivalent of protectorate, i.e.: alliance, trade rights, military acces (and, optionally, even some reasonable tribute). It gives you all the benefits without that money cheat.

Didn't think about that, thanks for pointing it out!

I just started a Casse campaign (and until I've conquered the islands I won't land on the continent, so I won't have had this problem for some time; but still, it's good to know!

[artaxerxes]

I have said this earlier: DO NOT USE PROTECTORATES IN EB! It is beacuse the protectorate gives you all its surplus money. But with EB money assistance script, it gets immediately a significant money assistance which is in turn transfered to you again, and again, and again... Basically, having a protectorate in EB means a huge exploit just giving you an incredible ammount of cash each turn, which is neither realistic nor fun.

Doesn't seem to work for me?????

Now its not because I wanna be a cheesy cheater - but I'd like a game, where I play a rich city state - narrowing my realm down to Babylon, Charax and Seleuceia (having Babylon with a hostile Seleuceia would be rather odd, so I'm gonna keep all southern mesopotamia). Anyway, my plan was to have this tiny kingdom & then use Force Diplomacy to keep everybody out of my way, at least till Babylon is a fully built huge city - and then I could make my own Babylonian kingdom from it ;)

Anyway, to build up Babylon rather quickly (the isolation isn't gonna be entertaining so don't wanna spend 300 years) I would need rather large sums of cash - not likely to come from 3 provinces only - so I thought I'd get a lot of protectorates thru Force Diplomacy - and use the trick you mentioned to get the buildings rolling... But even with Pontus, Bactria, Pahlava, Ptolemai and Makedonia ALL PROTECTORATES + several Seleucid provinces which I haven't got rid of yet, I still only make between 2000 and 6000 a turn... ;/
of course its more realistic than what I expected from what you were talking about, but I was hoping for seas of gold so that I could build Babylon rather quickly, and not wait 10 turns for every time I want to start a construction :/ ;)

[Midnj]

The only worthwhile benefit of a protectorate to me is the fact that the AI will basically never break them, whereas they break alliances all the time.

In my game when I protectorate a kingdom I normally modify the EB script and remove all their money bonuses, to the point where they are basically a hunk of land without the funds to build a sizeable army (given unit costs in EB), meaning I really do have to protect them.

For me the benefit beyond roleplay is simply that I don't have to garrison those far away provinces with a trillion troops because they're so far away from the capital.

[Fish-got-a-Sniper]

I usually bribe there armies and use the add_money cheat to replace what I use bribing them.