OOC Thread

[TinCow]

Ah, crap. I forgot to include the format for build queues etc in the Status and Orders thread. Thanks for remembering that Ramses. I will edit the standard format and example to include that info. Comments on thread organization in general are welcome. Let me know anything that doesn't work well, should be improved, moved elsewhere, is not needed, etc.

*Edit*
Thread format adjusted accordingly. My intention for that thread is for it to be the one spot where all important individual orders, actions, etc. can be kept for easy reference.

[TinCow]

The following is self-explanatory. Also note that I have put the most up-to-date version of the rules in the first post of the Rules Draft thread for convenience, since it was causing problems being down on page 3. I will keep updating the first post as rule changes are formally made.

Hi, these are questions for TC but I figured GH would need to know the answers as well.

A.) In a Civil War, if I want to enter an enemy settlement, do I have to have the MP to enter or just sit outside? What about sieges? Ig can get his Ballista right up to Dijon on turn one. But he can't get in. I can get into Dijon, but have no artillery.

B.) If there is no enemy general in the enemy settlement, can we just "tag" it like in KotR's civil war? Or do we have to fight the garrison?

C.) Can I ask GH to do Gascony's moves? If I upload the save with our moves, Anjou will see them. And vice-versa. But can GH (or TC) move all parties in a civil war after everyone has made their personal moves? That would keep things secret.

Thanks,
Kevin

To: PK & GH

A) Whenever two armies at war move adjacent to each other, a battle will occur. If you move adjacent to an enemy city that has a garrison, you will have to fight to take the city. If you have artillery of some kind that can make an immediate breach, you can attack immediately. If you do not have artillery, you'll have to build siege equipment. It will be up to the umpire of the battle to determine how much you can get, but personally I would just give you the same number of building points you would get if you were up against an AI city.

In any case, it's irrelevant in the present situation. This is the first turn after you made a Declaration of War. None of the Gascony armies can attack this turn, all you can do is move into position.

B) As stated above, you must fight the garrison.

C) Definitely. People do not have to move themselves, it's just an option that's available to them. The Chancellor can do everyone's moves for them if they wish.

On another note, I would like questions like these to be public. These are exactly the kinds of things that the Test Game is designed to deal with. Roleplaying, secrecy, winning, and losing all take a back seat in this game to ironing out the rules and making sure everything works properly and people understand how to play. I think compromising a little secrecy in the Test Game is worth it to make the real game better.

With your permission, I would like to post these PMs in the OOC thread.

[Privateerkev]

I have another question regarding Chancellor moves. This won't be much of an issue for me but my Anjou colleuges would want to know this.

1.) We are allowed to make our moves with our private armies in the 24 hour window.

2.) The Chancellor can move our stuff if we don't give orders.

3.) We can ask the Chancellor to move our stuff so it does not get seen when people download.

So my question is, if we tell the Chancellor to move our private army, is he doing it IC or OOC?

If Ramses doesn't want Gascony to know he is headed south, can he ask GH to make his move for him? And if GH does, does GH have IC knowledge of that move? And if GH does know IC, can he just refuse? Basically treat it as if Ramses did not submit the orders on time?

Please let me know if I am not being clear.

*edit*

Looking at this again, cleared part of that up:

The CHANCELLOR may move any avatar or army that has not been moved in this way as he best sees fit, including moves that result in battles, except that he cannot move a player’s avatar, Private/Royal Army, garrison units, or fort units in any manner that player has expressly prohibited.

So my new question is, if I ask the player playing the Chancellor to move my army,

A. does he know IC?

B. can he move the army how he wants or refuse?

[TinCow]

He does it OOC. The Chancellor essentially has two roles: his IC powers, and his OOC game management. Sometimes the two mix, sometimes they don't. If his actions mesh well with the plot, then you can role-play them as him having some influence in them if you want (such as Chancellor exiling someone to build watchtowers). If his actions make no sense IC, then you can just ignore them and pretend they were done as part of his OOC role (such as moving his own enemy to take one of his cities).

This happened plenty of times in KOTR, such as when I was Mandorf, who was Heinrich's most bitter opponent, but I helped GH declare war on the Pope and make moves that Mandorf hated. The same for Ituralde, who actively collaborated in his own assassination.

[Privateerkev]

He does it OOC. The Chancellor essentially has two roles: his IC powers, and his OOC game management. Sometimes the two mix, sometimes they don't. If his actions mesh well with the plot, then you can role-play them as him having some influence in them if you want (such as Chancellor exiling someone to build watchtowers). If his actions make no sense IC, then you can just ignore them and pretend they were done as part of his OOC role (such as moving his own enemy to take one of his cities).

Thanks for clearing that up. It helps to know what IC powers the Chancellor has. He's already spoken IC of moving the King somewhere he didn't want to go. So I wanted to know what he could actually do.

So, essentially you have 3 options for moving your private/royal army.

1.) move it yourself in the 24 hour window but people can see if they download after you upload.

2.) ask the Chancellor IC to move you. If your characters like each other, he'll do what you want.

3.) ask the player who is the Chancellor OOC to move you. If your characters don't like each other, the player will still comply with your wishes.

More questions:

A.) If your avatar is in a stack of troops but it is not a legal army, then the Chancellor can disband the troops but can not move the stack because of the "can't move avatar against player will" rule?

B.) If you have a stack of troops, but no avatar in them, and not in a settlement/fort, then the Chancellor can do anything he wants right? Move em, disband em, send them to auto-resolve death, ect...

[TinCow]

A.) If your avatar is in a stack of troops but it is not a legal army, then the Chancellor can disband the troops but can not move the stack because of the "can't move avatar against player will" rule?

B.) If you have a stack of troops, but no avatar in them, and not in a settlement/fort, then the Chancellor can do anything he wants right? Move em, disband em, send them to auto-resolve death, ect...

A) Refer to Rule 1.4:

The CHANCELLOR may move any avatar or army that has not been moved in this way as he best sees fit, including moves that result in battles, except that he cannot move a player’s avatar, Private/Royal Army, garrison units, or fort units in any manner that player has expressly prohibited.

If you haven't moved your avatar and haven't given orders restricting how your avatar can be moved, the Chancellor can do whatever he wants with you. This includes Private/Royal Armies. If you aren't going to move yourself and don't want the Chancellor to be able to do what he wants with your force, you need to speak up.

Essentially the rules are the same as in KOTR, but we are giving people more power over their own avatars and armies. However, because this places an added burden on the Chancellor to keep up with these orders, it is the complete responsibility of the individual players to make sure they either move themselves or properly inform the Chancellor by posting the appropriate orders. If you do not do either of these things, you have only yourself to blame if your avatar/army is moved in a way that you don't like.

B) Correct, unless it is a Private/Royal Army and orders have been posted that restrict its movement. Private/Royal Armies without commanders cannot be moved by anyone but the Chancellor, but the Chancellor still can't move them in a way that has been specifically prohibited in the orders.

I want to emphasize this again: this game has the potential to place a heavy burden on the person playing the Chancellor. In order to make this game playable, the burden is on the individual players to submit their orders properly if they do not want to leave everything up to the Chancellor's whims. You MUST post these orders in your post in the Status and Orders Thread.

A game turn is designed to operate most efficiently when played as follows:
1) End turn report/summary (can be brief) and new save game is posted by Chancellor. Chancellor does not do ANYTHING in the new turn yet.
2) 24 hour period for everyone to download the save and do whatever they want with their own avatar/armies. Chancellor can extend this time if he wants.
3) When the time is up, the Chancellor takes the save and plays out the rest of the turn according to his wishes. He looks ONLY at the Status and Orders Thread to determine what restrictions are on him for this phase. If something is not in the Status and Orders Thread, he is free to do what he pleases as long as it is allowed by the rules. When completed, return to #1 and repeat.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Okay, right now my disk drive does in fact seem to be working and I do have access to the save. If nothing changes, I will begin proceedings tomorrow as planned.

You guys have no idea how relieved I am at this moment.