What a pathetic stooge

[Mikeus Caesar]

Heaven forbid we try to engage in dialogue to end the constant slaughter, even if it doesn't get us anywhere...

Because obviously the only way to end the constant slaughter is turn Hamas into glass and let the Israeli government have their way.

[Ronin]

how dare he try to come up something that might actually turn out to be a solution?!?!?!?!?!

the nerve of that man!!

I mean...it´s obvious that the right solution for this problem is just for both sides to keep blowing each other's up in new and ingenious ways....I mean...that has worked in the past right?

[Geoffrey S]

There's no way the violence will end as long as terrorists such as Hamas are the political mainstream among Palestinians. Carter attempting to lend political credibility to such groups is not helpful at all.

[Don Corleone]

Heaven forbid we try to engage in dialogue to end the constant slaughter, even if it doesn't get us anywhere...

Because obviously the only way to end the constant slaughter is turn Hamas into glass and let the Israeli government have their way.

how dare he try to come up something that might actually turn out to be a solution?!?!?!?!?!

the nerve of that man!!

I mean...it´s obvious that the right solution for this problem is just for both sides to keep blowing each other's up in new and ingenious ways....I mean...that has worked in the past right?

Did you guys read the article? The Palestinian foreign minister said the meeting did absolutely nothing. Meshaal went out of his way to hold a press conference to contradict what Carter said after the meeting. How is that making progress? How is that working out a solution?

[Tribesman]

Did you guys read the article? The Palestinian foreign minister said the meeting did absolutely nothing. Meshaal went out of his way to hold a press conference to contradict what Carter said after the meeting. How is that making progress? How is that working out a solution?

Errrrrr...Don it was talks about talks , you know like clinton and Blair and Bush Reagan and Thatcher and Major all had with terrorists , denying all the time that they would negotiate with terrorists and all the time the terrorists straight away making claims that they were not going to compromise on their demands .
Meanwhile Isreal who doesn't talk to terrorists is talking to Hamas about talks through Egypt and America is talking through Egypt and Saudi Arabia to Hamas about talks .

they've made various statements on the right of Jews to exist anywhere.

yeah yeah yeah and only the Mormons will exist at the end of days ..or was that Jews or Christians or pastafarians

[HoreTore]

I can't say that this is having less effect than the official US and israel policy has...

[Viking]

I can't say that this is having less effect than the official US and israel policy has...

What bollocks, the Israeli policy has lead lead to decades of terrorism and countless dead bodies on both sides. It's pretty decent by sadist measures.

[Ronin]

Did you guys read the article? The Palestinian foreign minister said the meeting did absolutely nothing. Meshaal went out of his way to hold a press conference to contradict what Carter said after the meeting. How is that making progress? How is that working out a solution?

it´s called trying....nobody said he was successful.

[Adrian II]

Guys, guys, this is how American Christians treat eachother.

In another thread Dave wrote that Carter's volunteer building project was 'building homes for useless leaches'.

Now his effort to get talks about talks going (isn't that how the spiral of violence was broken in Northern Ireland?) is called 'pissing away credibility'.

Can't be long now before someone calls the Salvation Army a '******* waste of good money'.

[Don Corleone]

Guys, guys, this is how American Christians treat eachother.

In another thread Dave wrote that Carter's volunteer building project was 'building homes for useless leaches'.

Now his effort to get talks about talks going (isn't that how the spiral of violence was broken in Northern Ireland?) is called 'pissing away credibility'.

Can't be long now before someone calls the Salvation Army a '******* waste of good money'.

You know, I can understand ad hominem attacks from others in this thread, but frankly Adrian, I thought you were capable of better.

Last time I checked, Gerry Adams didn't make it a point hold a press conference to publicly call George Mitchell a liar 3 hours after George announced the results of the initial visit. And I'm pretty damn sure neither Warren Christopher nor Madeline Albright specifically asked George Mitchell NOT to initiate ex-partae talks.

If that's the best you can come up with, so be it. But you're slipping.

[Adrian II]

You know, I can understand ad hominem attacks from others in this thread, but frankly Adrian, I thought you were capable of better.

Hominem shnominem, Don. I am defending a Christian against
the 'reproach of man' (Psalm 22:6) here.

Seamus Fermanagh gave a much more balanced evaluation of Carter in #93 of the 'Worst President ever' thread, something I would expect from a (fellow) Christian. Ironically it's not Carter who is burning credebility, it's his American detractors who brand him a loser, an idiot, even a traitor.

[Devastatin Dave]

Carter also did wonders for the Iranian issues. This guys is as worthless a tits on a bull or Katrina "victims". My only wish is that either someone commits this old bird into an abusive old folks home or the next religion of peace home video releases this anti-Semite d-bag getting a Middle east shave job while the barber praising Allah.

Care to critique this statement my old friend Adrian? Good to see you y theway. Being quoted by you has always bben a secret sourse of pleasure for me.

[Lemur]

You would think that the pressure of actually having to govern something would mellow Hamas out a little bit. That's how it usually works. Unfortunately, they seem to be taking the Mugabe/Castro path of blaming everything on foreign powers while doing nothing productive.

Poor Jimmy Carter. You would think he would be savvy to how much lying and two-faced deception goes on in the Middle East, but I guess he's getting duller with age. According to the article, however, he managed to get a letter delivered. That's something to boast about! That letter would never have made it without Carter's intervention.

Don Corleone, I don't think Adrian's comment was so very ad hominem. In his silly way he was making a valid point; some right-wing rhetoric pretends that all charity is wasted and all peacemaking is foolishness. It's a profoundly un-Christian perspective, which is why it's legit for A2 to point out that the same right-wingers who rail on the poor and destitute are usually also in favor of Christian supremacy. Bit of a paradox there.

[Adrian II]

Care to critique this statement my old friend Adrian?

It's crap.

Good to see you y theway. Being quoted by you has always bben a secret sourse of pleasure for me.

Frankly, good Sir, I've missed your unreconstructed self. Good to have you back. Yeeehaw!



So how come you're out of the can so soon? Picked up all the soaps for that nice warden?

[Vladimir]

it´s called trying....nobody said he was successful.

Just like I'm trying not to laugh.

Beirut you're missing his point entirely. At best Carter is communicating from a position of weakness. Communication with an enemy can also be perceived as a weakness and the meaningless platitude for change sounds like an Obama speech. Change to what? It also makes you sound like the people Adrian sites in his last paragraph. If during a period of conflict you're able to force you opponent to the negotiating table, it is an admission of weakness on his part. I suggest you read about the negotiations between the US and Vietnam in Paris. The shape and size of the table matters.

Carter has noting to negotiate with other than goodwill.

[Adrian II]

Carter has noting to negotiate with other than goodwill.

And so has George Bush, who is yet again made to look like a fool by Israel, in public, this time over a letter he sent. Or didn't, as the White House claims.
Or did, as the Israelis say.
'Didn't', says Rice.
'Did,' says chief of stafff Weissglas: 'and Rice even confirmed it'.

You know what I believe? I believe that Israel is speaking the truth, that George Bush is lying again, and that nobody cares anymore because nobody believes this guy anyway.

Speaking of pissing away credibility...

[Vladimir]

Just a touch or hyperbole there. Currently he has over 100,000 things to negotiate with, and then some. Carter has...?

[Beirut]

At best Carter is communicating from a position of weakness. Communication with an enemy can also be perceived as a weakness and the meaningless platitude for change sounds like an Obama speech. Change to what? It also makes you sound like the people Adrian sites in his last paragraph. If during a period of conflict you're able to force you opponent to the negotiating table, it is an admission of weakness on his part. I suggest you read about the negotiations between the US and Vietnam in Paris. The shape and size of the table matters.

If Carter was communicating from a position of weakness I doubt this kerfuffle would have erupted. It is precisely because his communication skills and openess are feared that people are ranting and raving. Personally, I think this is great. You've got the US and Israel, a strategic cross-ocean mega-nuclear superpower, and they're all a flutter because one guy is having tea and talking to another guy. It's like watching a dictator with a huge army and media machine (Hello? China?) tremble because one guy with a pen is willing to tell the truth.

I love guys who can do that.

Nobody is being forced to do anything here. There is no table shape to hold a grudge over. Carter is talking to a group of people as an individual, not a state representative, and his only intention as far as I see is to determine if there is any middle ground that will lower the cycle of violence. You need to talk to do that.

Carter has noting to negotiate with other than goodwill.

I won't condemn a man for having goodwill. Goodwill saves lives.

[HoreTore]

Every time I read one of Beirut's posts, I get an urge for a holiday in Canada...

[Vladimir]

Nobody is being forced to do anything here. There is no table shape to hold a grudge over. Carter is talking to a group of people as an individual, not a state representative, and his only intention as far as I see is to determine if there is any middle ground that will lower the cycle of violence. You need to talk to do that.





I won't condemn a man for having goodwill. Goodwill saves lives.

Whoa, stop. He most certainly is not talking to "a group of people" as an "individual." What is this group of people? Who is this individual? I know you're a big lumber, beaver eating Canuk but step back from that tree once in a while. We can also see what good has come out of the talks: Nothing.

Yes, it also paves the road to hell.