What a pathetic stooge

[Lemur]

You would think that the pressure of actually having to govern something would mellow Hamas out a little bit. That's how it usually works. Unfortunately, they seem to be taking the Mugabe/Castro path of blaming everything on foreign powers while doing nothing productive.

Poor Jimmy Carter. You would think he would be savvy to how much lying and two-faced deception goes on in the Middle East, but I guess he's getting duller with age. According to the article, however, he managed to get a letter delivered. That's something to boast about! That letter would never have made it without Carter's intervention.

Don Corleone, I don't think Adrian's comment was so very ad hominem. In his silly way he was making a valid point; some right-wing rhetoric pretends that all charity is wasted and all peacemaking is foolishness. It's a profoundly un-Christian perspective, which is why it's legit for A2 to point out that the same right-wingers who rail on the poor and destitute are usually also in favor of Christian supremacy. Bit of a paradox there.

[Don Corleone]

I'm all for peacekeeping. I don't consider myself a hypocrite for being for a strong foreign policy AND a Christian, but hey, by all means Lemur, call me one. Last time I checked, I'm pretty generous with the poor, and I'd put my tax returns against yours or Adrian's to prove my charitable giving.

My point is there is a difference between being a George Mitchell and a Neville Chamberlain. Both had the same stated goal. One was wise about the way he went after his goal, one wasn't.

[Craterus]

My point is there is a difference between being a George Mitchell and a Neville Chamberlain. Both had the same stated goal. One was wise about the way he went after his goal, one wasn't.

Hindsight is a beautiful thing.

[Xiahou]

Poor Jimmy Carter. You would think he would be savvy to how much lying and two-faced deception goes on in the Middle East, but I guess he's getting duller with age.

I prefer "crazier", but I guess "duller" is close enough. He's apparently been going out of his way to oppose US foreign policy interests for quite a while now.

It's a profoundly un-Christian perspective, which is why it's legit for A2 to point out that the same right-wingers who rail on the poor and destitute are usually also in favor of Christian supremacy. Bit of a paradox there.

Who, DD? I like him, but I certainly don't consider him representative of "right-wingers" on this board. Seeing as how AdrianII was replying to Don and not DD, I think he was most likely having a bit of fun and taking some pot shots- which is his right, but I think the change of tone probably came as a surprise to Don.

[Tribesman]

He's apparently been going out of his way to oppose US foreign policy interests for quite a while now.

You may be right there Xiahou , but then again since much amrerican foriegn policy has been complete bollox for quite a while now it shows that he ain't stupid

Last time I checked, Gerry Adams didn't make it a point hold a press conference to publicly call George Mitchell a liar 3 hours after George announced the results of the initial visit.

Oh so when Mitchell said he was getting the guns out of politics Adams didn't say his gunmen hadn't gone away you know .
Try again Don

[Beirut]

If the goal is for simply one less act of violence to be committed, a true believer in peace will talk to anyone, anywhere, anytime.

It takes guts and I applaud anyone who goes against the grain and takes a chance.

Communication is the key. If it doesn't work, fine, then let loose the dogs of war. But never should rage and cowardice disguised as upstanding nationalism stop any one man from talking to another if there is even the smallest chance that the end result will be a reduction in the level of violence.

[Xiahou]

If the goal is for simply one less act of violence to be committed, a true believer in peace will talk to anyone, anywhere, anytime.

Too bad he failed miserably. Hamas has held up his visit as a sign of their own importance and at the same time, completely disavowed any of the things Carter claims they have said. He was used as a PR tool for Hamas and made no meaningful progress otherwise.

It's almost like the exact same thing that the State Dept warned him would happen happened.

[Beirut]

Too bad he failed miserably. Hamas has held up his visit as a sign of their own importance and at the same time, completely disavowed any of the things Carter claims they have said. He was used as a PR tool for Hamas and made no meaningful progress otherwise.

In our present world of some six billion people, it would appear from all accounts that close to all of them are willing to kill the other guy on account of this reason, that reason, or perhaps even the other reason. There is no shortage of anger, weapons, money to finance anger and weapons, nor people susceptible to the joys that anger and weapons provide. That being said, if don't mind worth a shmoo's tuckus if one guy takes it upon himself to take the road less travelled and try as he might to sit and talk for a moment in hopes that during the five minutes he's talking to the other guy, the other guy won't be killing anyone. It would be, one might say, five minutes well spent.

To be honest, and this is just my mind, great doubts come to me about those with lots and lots guns who stand in fear and rage at those lone individuals who dare to sit and talk. It makes the people with weapons look weak and dishonest, and weak dishonest people with lots and lots of guns is a patently bad idea.

[Tribesman]

Would you mind showing me the link where Gerry Adams got up and held a press conference and said "everything that man just said is bollox", which is basically what happened here?

Well Don it might help if the people you are talking about had actually said that ..or anything remotely like it . As it certainly isn't basicly what happened , besides which you could follow the State Depts comments about Hamas follow up press statement for a little thought , because currently your reaction to Carters talking to Hamas is exactly the same as Al-Qaidas reaction to Hamas talking to Carter .

Hamas has held up his visit as a sign of their own importance and at the same time, completely disavowed any of the things Carter claims they have said.

Another one that didn't follow the state dept .
Oh what was it exactly errr...public rhetoric , pinch of salt .

Now you could believe completey the public rhetoric of the Hamas , but it would be as wise as believing Charlie Haughey or Margaret Thatcher saying they doesn't negotiate with terrorists

[Don Corleone]

Well Don it might help if the people you are talking about had actually said that ..or anything remotely like it . As it certainly isn't basicly what happened , besides which you could follow the State Depts comments about Hamas follow up press statement for a little thought , because currently your reaction to Carters talking to Hamas is exactly the same as Al-Qaidas reaction to Hamas talking to Carter .

So basically, then, no? You can't think of a time when Gerry Adams held a press conference to announce the exact opposite of what George Mitchell had said 3 hours prior in wrap-up session of a series of talks? Didn't think so.

[HoreTore]

Hamas has held up his visit as a sign of their own importance

Uhm. Hamas is important...

Like it or not.

[Crazed Rabbit]

Hmm, maybe, just maybe, giving a terrorist group dedicated to the destruction of a democrat state international recognition and legitimacy isn't such a great idea.

What did Carter gain, hmm, for his pandering to terrorists? Hamas was treated as though they were a legitimate state of sorts, and did they act anything like it, or just continue as the murderers they are?

Oh, but wait! They were talking, and talking is always good. Talk, talk talk, it's like a inherent good in itself. You're a morally better person if you talk. The actual results don't matter, heavens no. That'd be much to demanding. And we should never question if perhaps talking was counterproductive.

Like, by giving the impression a bunch of terrorists are some sort of partner in peace. Or if Hamas never really wants peace at all.

CR

[Don Corleone]

Oh so when Mitchell said he was getting the guns out of politics Adams didn't say his gunmen hadn't gone away you know .
Try again Don

So close, and yet so far....Survey says...

Would you mind showing me the link where Gerry Adams got up and held a press conference and said "everything that man just said is bollox", which is basically what happened here?

Nobody ever actually fulfills the outcome of a series of peace talks, at least not the early ones. But it's a new kind of 'screw you too' to hold a press conference just to publicly disclaim what your 'partner in peace' just said, especially something so fundamental as a right to exist.

[Ronin]

I prefer "crazier", but I guess "duller" is close enough. He's apparently been going out of his way to oppose US foreign policy interests for quite a while now.

well...considering the route US foreign policy has taken for the last few years that can only be taken as a sign of good sense on his part.

[Tribesman]

So basically, then, no?

errrr, when did you stop beating your wife Don ?

You can't think of a time when Gerry Adams held a press conference to announce the exact opposite of what George Mitchell had said 3 hours prior in wrap-up session of a series of talks? Didn't think so.

Since that isn't what happened with Carter/Hamas your point is ?
Did Hamas publicly contrdict some of what Carter said afterwards
Did Adams publicly contrasdict some of what Mitchell said
So Don you is setting up one of them scarecrow thingies made of straw . well done .

As I said Don you are taking the same line as Al-qaida is taking in relation to this meeting , does that put you in good company ?

[Furious Mental]

Well if he achieves nothing he still hasn't made the situation worse, so who cares?