Players wanted for Broken Crescent MPC 2

[Askthepizzaguy]

Greetings, fellow Citadel contributors.

If anyone is familiar with or interested in playing Broken Crescent with (currently) 12 other players, we have several slots left to fill. The first one is a smashing success and we are only on turn 11. A lot has happened in such a short span of time.

If you would like more information, please feel free to ask a question here.

Requirements:

1. Broken Crescent 1.0
2. Broken Crescent patch 1.5
3. 3 Quickfix patches (tiny fixes)
4. Must be available to play a turn at any given point in your everyday life within a 48-hour turn limit
5. You should designate someone as a substitute if you cannot make the deadline
6. You agree to not attempt to hack the game files or use exploits, as that defeats the spirit of hotseat games. Cheat on your own time.

These things don't actually take up much of your time. It can take several days or even a week before you need to spend half an hour playing a turn. Not really that much of a big deal, especially if you have a substitute designated.

We are also looking for someone who knows how to moderate the game. This one is more of a commitment because BC has code which generates spawns AI armies, which need to be removed from the game as humans will abuse such an advantage. Also sometimes in-game diplomacy fails and the moderator needs to edit the game files to make it work. I know phonicsmonkey managed to do very will in the BC hotseat, and although he's unavailable to mod this one, I would think he could answer quick questions or point you in the right direction.

If there is absolutely no one to moderate, I will find out how to do it and I will attempt to do as great a job as phonicsmonkey and the other hotseat moderators.

[Monk]

Will the same rules that were used for the first be repeated in the next? That's the only question I have really, looking over what was posted here in this thread and based on the rules for the last one it seems pretty simple enough.

I've never played a hotseat game but i love BC so I'd definitely be interested in trying it out.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Yes, I am fairly sure the rules will be identical.

This is a very fair kind of game, with an emphasis on defense and offense. You have enough room no matter what faction you are to expand a little before you are forced to go to war. You armies are SITTING DUCKS when you hit the end turn button because you can fight all battles yourself on your turn, and so can your opponents. This allows you to actually use your generalship skills to defeat the more powerful foes, but it also means you must be extra careful not to get your armies annihilated. I feel it's more realistic and challenging that way.

I would like to keep the option to fight battles yourself in the BC2 game, that has really livened up this game and provided a real element of danger. But the power of diplomacy is not to be underestimated.

I would like to see most of the map fill with human players, so there's a slot open for most. There are at least 15 factions if I remember correctly, so that's around 9 or ten open slots still.

[Monk]

Yes, I am fairly sure the rules will be identical.

This is a very fair kind of game, with an emphasis on defense and offense. You have enough room no matter what faction you are to expand a little before you are forced to go to war. You armies are SITTING DUCKS when you hit the end turn button because you can fight all battles yourself on your turn, and so can your opponents. This allows you to actually use your generalship skills to defeat the more powerful foes, but it also means you must be extra careful not to get your armies annihilated. I feel it's more realistic and challenging that way.

I would like to keep the option to fight battles yourself in the BC2 game, that has really livened up this game and provided a real element of danger. But the power of diplomacy is not to be underestimated.

I would like to see most of the map fill with human players, so there's a slot open for most. There are at least 15 factions if I remember correctly, so that's around 9 or ten open slots still.

Hm! Well in that case count me in, it sounds (and looks from what i've read in the Court of the Caliph thread) like it's a lot of fun. Is there anything i need to set up on my end to be able to play hotseat?

[Askthepizzaguy]

No, you just need to have Broken Crescent, patch 1.5, and the quickfixes (easily found on the out of character thread for BC1) in that order, installed on your system.

Then someone starts the hotseat game and sends the next player a save file which can be unzipped and put into your BC saves folder, and opened.

They will be password-secure, so dont forget your password. Have the moderator and your substitute player be aware of your password.

You hit the end turn button and the next player's password screen loads. You hit escape and save the file, then you have to ZIP the file to save space (right click on it and select send to: compressed (zipped) folder) then load it to the ORG's pbm uploader page and private message the next player in line the link, and also post the link in the OOC thread for BC2.

That sounds complicated but it's not. Typically takes 60-90 seconds.

You do need to be aware that Kingdoms and other special modifications to the game will break the hotseat. You can only join if you are playing off of the following chain of patches:

Medieval 2 Total War version 1.0
-Patched to m2tw version 1.3
--Broken Crescent 1.0
---BC patch 1.5
----3 quickfixes

If you have kingdoms (or if I remember correctly, the very NEXT patch for Kingdoms... I don't know which) or have otherwise modded Broken Crescent or Medieval 2 Vanilla in that tree, it will not work properly. So if you want to have seperate Kingdoms and other mods installed, Copy your modded and Kingdoms M2TW folder and rename it something like "M2TW mods" and install a fresh copy of M2TW and install the updates in the order above to the unmodded game.

That way you can have all the versions you want and it won't affect the hotseat. Warning, doing so takes up a lot of space on your disk, most likely. It's two full copies of the game.

You can have other mods playing off of Vanilla at the same time, as I have LTC and the long road as well as Broken Crescent. However, none of those other mods interferes with the "tree" above as they are completely encased in seperate folders. Kingdoms modifies the actual game I believe.

[Monk]

Nah, that didn't sound too complicated! I'll do a clean install later on just to make sure i'll be good for the hotseat, thanks for the walkthrough pizzaguy.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I thought you might find it simple enough, Monk!



Mostly that walkthrough was to inform others who might want to join exactly what is required so they don't sign up for something they will have to drop out of on the first turn.

If I might make an additional comment:

I find that other hotseat games where everything is auto-resolved gives undue advantages to factions which happen to do better in auto-resolve than others. Example:

Poor little russia in the original game has very poor auto-resolve troops, but very decent player controlled troops if used properly. Horse archers versus the central european powers is a nice advantage. But it doesn't matter, they will get pasted.

Scotland has decent enough troops but in the beginning they are but a small death march away from being a province of England. It's suicidal to pick them if you and the English player go to war right away. Factions in Italy and France and Germany do very well, they are overpowered in auto-resolve, and then crusades on top of that... ouch.

None of that nonsense in Broken Crescent with player controlled armies. You can defeat superior forces with cunning, at last. And no crusades or jihads that YOU can abuse. This is the largest and fairest multiplayer game I can find.

[Galain_Ironhide]

I will watch this with interest. I can't commit at the moment. But if you get close to starting and you stil have a slot open, I may jump in.

All I would have to do is upgrade to 1.3 which is easy enough.

[Askthepizzaguy]

In order to be fair to all players, I want to have everyone pick their faction when everyone who is going to join is ready to join. I don't want to give myself or anyone else who is joining now an unfair advantage by allowing the ERE or the Ghorids or the Seljuks to be reserved before everyone has had a chance to claim their factions.

What I think I am going to do is this:

When everyone who is going to join has joined, the remaining slots will be declared AI factions. They can only be claimed by players who have been eliminated from the game early. (it's very disruptive to have players joining and leaving the game... people should commit, and subs should take over if anyone drops out, but having new players join in the middle can greatly impact the game in a manner most unpleasant for existing players.

For example, I have an AI faction on my border, and two players. I decide for peace, alliance, or war with the two players, but then in the middle a third player joins in and disrupts the whole affair by allying with one side or the other. AI factions are also likely to be destroyed quickly, so it doesn't make much sense for them to become player-controlled midstream. I don't like it.

But if I am in the minority here, I will overturn that idea.

Later on in the game, the AI factions will be destroyed, making respawn impossible unless a player drops out. This makes destroying the AI instead of human players a priority, which will in turn allow player factions a chance to look around and enjoy the scenery before they are duly crushed.

I want people to have fun, so these are the rules I think are fair to everyone.

The actual picking of the factions will happen when everyone has joined. Then everyone will get a chance to declare their desired faction(s). If two or more players pick a certain faction, I will ask for a volunteer from among them to select a different faction. If someone really wants it, they can contest it. This way everyone has a chance to declare their desire for a particular faction, and there will be a fair way to decide the contest between 2 players; a game of rock, scissors, paper!

Players will PM me their selection, and the winner will be announced along with the declared choices for both. That way everything is on the up and up, and there can be no cheating.

If three or more players demand a certain faction and will not budge, I will step in and use R,S,P to eliminate players until there are two remaining, using the same private message system. The results will be made public, again, to ensure no one cheats.

That way there is an incentive for new players to join and have fun, and an incentive for players to go after what AI factions there might be before we begin killing one another.

[Galain_Ironhide]

Askthepizzaguy, is there a recruitment thread in the throneroom? Or maybe a running list of players who have joined?

As I said, commitment is a problem ATM. However my situation could change before it starts. If not though I will enjoy reading the threads in the Throneroom.

[Askthepizzaguy]

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=102345

There is the official recruitment center, but I am using my influence to spread the message of allah in other parts of the org.

[Monk]

In order to be fair to all players, I want to have everyone pick their faction when everyone who is going to join is ready to join. I don't want to give myself or anyone else who is joining now an unfair advantage by allowing the ERE or the Ghorids or the Seljuks to be reserved before everyone has had a chance to claim their factions.

Sounds pretty fair, i was just about to ask how faction selection would be handled.

Now, is there a limit to the number of times a player can respawn? Let's say Player 1 has some extremely bad luck and gets knocked off pretty early, he jumps into a new kingdom and is rolling along.. only to be knocked out again! Is he still allowed to respawn (provided there is somewhere he can respawn) or has he used up his "extra life"?

[Askthepizzaguy]

By then, I am assuming the AI factions will be obliterated. It is very difficult to eliminate a player to begin with, let alone quickly, or twice. Especially if Askthepizzaguy INSISTS on keeping them alive... (nods to BC 1 players and chuckles)

I'd reserve the remaining AI factions, if any, for the next player who died, and eliminate the player with the extra life for good, unless of course a player drops out and we need players badly.

Fortunately no one has dropped out in the BC1 hotseat, even though we have had some close calls.

I think the objective is to eliminate AI factions altogether and have a complete map with only human players. But we need more players for that.

[Monk]

Ah okay then, i getcha. I realize that the example I gave was highly unlikely, just thought i'd ask in case it came to that. Better to know before hand, ect.

[Askthepizzaguy]

relative strengths of factions in Broken Crescent:

1. Eastern Roman Empire- Immensely Powerful

Has superb western style armies mixed with powerful cataphracts and some javelin cavalry. Interestingly enough, they have to rely on mercenaries to get any horse archers for the most part. How ironic!

They have the ability to recruit INSANE mercenaries, and their late period troops are astonishingly brutal. Plus they start with Constantinople and a fair amount of territory, and more easily seized, and they can have a NAVY right from the start.

If allowed to grow unchecked, it's possible they are the most powerful faction in the game... if allowed to grow unchecked. Ahem. Wink.

2. Jerusalem- Immensely Powerful

Has Latin/French style crusader knights, heavy infantry and cavalry, some of the best in the game. They can also call for Papal Assistance, and if certain regions fall, they will get it!

The have a great number of good provinces all packed together, making them the "Rome" of Broken Crescent. No offense to the ERE. They can defend themselves very well and they can have a navy right from the start.

3. Great Seljuks- Awesomely Powerful

They have a huge territory and huge armies right from the start. Their troops are also very powerful. They can also easily form alliances with anyone they want with their huge central position. The only thing which truly threatens their power is the fact that everyone could turn on them at once, and with skilled diplomacy, that won't happen.

I haven't played them, but I've seen their troops and they seem to be quite good.

4. The Ghorid Sultanate- Awesomely Powerful

With a superior mountainous position, massive armies, and impressive troops, they can easily bum-rush the Rajputs and easily defend against the Ghaznavids. The Sindhi people to the south are the only obstacles to total domination of the east with a single offensive.

I haven't played them, but I've seen them in action and they are quite good. Greatest weakness: their cities don't produce much income, but aggressive expansion solves that problem.

5. The Kypchak confederacy- Very Powerful

While lacking in certain types of troops, this is a horde of horsemen with a lot of rebel territory to claim, and few enemies. The ERE remains their biggest threat to the south, and Georgia looms in the east, but with a corner position and an event which spawns troops for claiming the steppes, they are quite secure. They must simply be wary of the fact that their lands are poor and their religion is pagan... so they won't be spreading their faith very well, until late in the game, if at all, and their distant location puts them at some disadvantage long term.

6. The Ayyubid Sultanate- Powerful

With lots of lands and rich cities, and impressive troops, and an easy (?) conquest of Samuel L Jackson to the south, they can wedge themselves into a corner and be very difficult to get out.

7. The Khwarezmids- Powerful

With vast lands and superb troops, these men rule the north... until the Mongols come, and then they are promptly slaughtered, if their neighbors the Seljuks or the Ghaznavids don't kill them first.

8. The Abassid Caliphate- Powerful

They have perhaps the best troops Islam has to offer, and Baghdad to boot, plus rebel lands aplenty to take. But they don't start with many territories, and the Seljuks loom to the north. They also aren't guaranteed to beat anyone to those rebel lands...

9. The Turkish Sultanate- Powerful

They have superior cavalry forces, armour piercing axemen as their most basic unit, armour piercing javelin throwers, long range and short range horse bowmen, and heavy ghulam cavalry... throw in some late period heavy infantry janissaries and they have some very good armies. Only one slight problem... they are totally surrounded by the Infidel and could be crushed outright.

10. The Ghaznavids- Moderate

From what I've seen of their troops, they have competent forces and plenty of lands to expand into, but their neighbors may make things difficult. They have somewhat poor lands and no ports. But they seem to do all right.

I haven't played this faction.

11. Georgia- Moderate

Pretty potent troops and lots of rebel lands to expand into, but being neighbors of the Turks and the Seljuks and having to face the Kypchaks, and perhaps even the Roman navy makes Georgia a moderately weak faction by comparison to the others.

12. Rajputs- Moderate

They have freakin elephants. Nuff said. However, they are dangerously weak against a full frontal attack by the Ghorids. If given time and peace, they can become a dangerous threat. Their generals seem to die a bit easily though...

;)

13. Armenia- Weak

They have a great troop selection. Very well balanced, and great mercenary units. They have very little territory and they are surrounded by far more powerful factions, and expanding makes them even more vulnerable because it requires committing their troops.

14. Makuria- Weak

They have great infantry and good foot archers, and they are a corner faction with great possibilities. Plus they have Samuel L Jedi Jackson. Even so, facing the Ayyubids so early means a contest to unite Egypt and Arabia right away... not looking good for Makuria.

15. Imamate of Oman- Very Weak

Not even armed with a diplomat, this faction seems an afterthought. But surrounded by rebels, a blitzer's favorite. I also understand that they have some great mercenaries and can develop into a great power, if only they could live.

16. Malikate of Sindh- Very Weak

They have a good starting position in a fertile area surrounded by a desert, an ocean, and some rebels. But they face the Ghorids, the Ghaznavids, and the Imamate of Oman, not to mention possible Abassid and Rajput incursions later on. I would consider them a challenge.

I haven't seen their troops, because they got wiped out so quickly in the BC hotseat, but they could be more powerful than I think.

17. Mongol Horde- Strong but unplayable

yes, the horde. But too bad, so sad, no territories for you at the start, and everyone will hate your guts even IF you were playable. Which you aren't.

=========================

Did I miss anyone?

Those are only my opinions, and I'm only vaguely educated about most of these factions, so feel free to refute them.

[Xehh II]

I am sad, I have not 1.3 yet I am cry.

[Ramses II CP]

FYI for everyone, Rajput generals have a little bug where they only get 1 hitpoint while the regular elephants and members of their bodyguard all get a couple. It makes it really easy to lose your general to archer or javelin fire, especially friendly fire.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Often with hilarious consequences...

[The Lemongate]

You armies are SITTING DUCKS when you hit the end turn button because you can fight all battles yourself on your turn, and so can your opponents. This allows you to actually use your generalship skills to defeat the more powerful foes, but it also means you must be extra careful not to get your armies annihilated. I feel it's more realistic and challenging that way.

I think someone here had a bad experience involving boats, a Sultan and sitting out a siege

It is very difficult to eliminate a player to begin with, let alone quickly, or twice. Especially if Askthepizzaguy INSISTS on keeping them alive... (nods to BC 1 players and chuckles)

Damn you I says! Damn yoooooouuuuu!!!

1. Eastern Roman Empire- Immensely Powerful

Has superb western style armies mixed with powerful cataphracts and some javelin cavalry. Interestingly enough, they have to rely on mercenaries to get any horse archers for the most part. How ironic!

They have the ability to recruit INSANE mercenaries, and their late period troops are astonishingly brutal. Plus they start with Constantinople and a fair amount of territory, and more easily seized, and they can have a NAVY right from the start.

If allowed to grow unchecked, it's possible they are the most powerful faction in the game... if allowed to grow unchecked. Ahem. Wink.

I feel targeted in this thread. No really I do.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO ME!!!

Fun times

[Askthepizzaguy]

It's "all your base are belong to us", not "me".



However, we are getting derailed. Back on topic please.

[The Lemongate]

I don’t know what’s your take on this, but seeing as we will most probably not fill out all the faction slots, maybe we should restrict the choice somewhat so that the main factions are filled up before anyone (like me for instance) goes wandering off to pick something tiny like Oman.

Some factions are really a must unless you want to leave a corner of the map to a single player.

Something along the lines:

ERE
Ayyubids
KoJ
Turkish Sultanate
Great Seljuks
Khwarez Shah
Abbassid Caliphate
Rajput States
Ghorids
Ghaznavids

Before anyone goes to take the smaller realms like:

Georgia
Armenia
Sindhi
Oman
Makuria
Kypchak Confederacy (which though tremenduously powerful is too much out of the way)


Anyways, that’s just an idea.

Another one would be to agree, for exemple, to leave some parts of the maps empty. Like the entire East (Ghorids, Ghaznavids and Rajputs). This could make a repopulation by players scenario much more viable.


Then again, tiny countries can be so much fun! Think about playing the mighty Malikate of Sindh with no money, no units, no territory, surrounded by large rebel stacks with enemies lurking on all your borders! Fun times!

[Askthepizzaguy]

Interesting idea.

I am waiting for more players to startup the BC2 hotseat, and with 8 players already and 2 likely to join, that only leaves a few more before the map is almost full. 16 factions right? I think we need 3 more players and the couple looky-lous need to either join or we need 2 more.

I don't want large sections of the map to be AI controlled, though. That leaves the player or players bordering that area too much of an advantage. While the rest of us battle it out, they quietly become a global empire.

I should think that any large empire remaining after the players choose would be a fine backup slot for any players eliminated early, but its not necessary to even have such a thing in place. Sometimes when you die... you die!

I can also see where someone might take advantage of the system by intentionally not finishing off a player so that they cannot respawn.

[Frodge]

I may give it a go but 2 things, where do i get these fixes and what do i have to do to enable hotseats? Oh and what factions are taken?

[Askthepizzaguy]

Can anyone else field that question? I am not at my home computer right now and I forget where the links are.

The factions have not been claimed yet, as we're waiting for all to join, then we are going to be very impartial in deciding who gets what faction. I believe I mentioned how above.

[The Lemongate]

Mod: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=140857

Fixes: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=142288

For the fixes, there are more then one, read the entire thread (only 6 posts).

[PrinceofTroy]

Just got the fixes, can't wait for this to start up!

[Askthepizzaguy]

Should we start it up? I'm going to ask everyone who has signed up.

If no moderator volunteers, I'll have to learn how.

By the way, for moderator actions, I may exceed the 48 hour limit if I am not sure what to do, as I will have to go bug people and figure out what has to be done. Also, I will have to fix the script issues myself, so I'm going to ask phonicsmonkey how he did it.

[rossahh]

I think we should start without waiting for every faction to be filled. The last BC was not full when we began, and only filled up as the game progressed. So long as the big ones are taken, there shouldn't be any issues of it being fair/unfair for some players by having an AI faction on their border. Remember, with BC, AI factions will get big bonuses - like the garrison scripts and having massive armies spawn at will - that will make fighting them no less difficult than fighting a player.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I would warn against having the pizza guy on the border of any AI nation.

The Bloody Crescent AAR in progress explains why.

[Ferret]

bugsy being Kypchacks

if we do start now I may have to get a sub for the first few turns because of...exams :(

but after that I will be fully commited. I also could moderate then but it would be better to have the moderater in place at the start, if you do have ot do it then don't worry, it's not very hard.