The Parisii

[cmacq]

Found something some may find of interest.

http://www.paris.culture.fr/en/index.html

[Ibrahim]

oh yes, that's well nown to me.

Romans apparently renemed the place lutetia-wonder how parisii lived on in this situation.

[cmacq]

I was wondering if that Ribemont-sur-Ancre site many have something to do with the Parisii, before they were reduced to a muddy island sur la Seine? Or could the Parisii actually be a Belgae affiliate that was cut off from the main body?

[Anthony III]

I was wondering if that Ribemont-sur-Ancre site many have something to do with the Parisii, before they were reduced to a muddy island sur la Seine? Or could the Parisii actually be a Belgae affiliate that was cut off from the main body?

I believe much older than the Belgae. Current theory states that the Parisii (“Effective ones” - otherwise known as the Quariti), were originally a subtribe of the Senones (either “old inhabitants” or “worshippers of the ancient one” / Senos). These ‘Celts’ were apparently labiovelar kw speakers who had been forced from their original central position in Gaul by the influx of the Moselle and Marne ‘Celts’ eg Aedui, Lingones, etc in the 5th C BC. The Parissi themselves were pushed north along the Seine to the position which they later maintained, their centre at Lutecia, now Paris.

[Elmetiacos]

So, if the Parisi were Q-Celtic speakers, how come their name starts with a P?

[Jaywalker-Jack]

How could it possibly be known that they spoke Q-Celtic? Our knowledge of Gallic as a whole is based on a few scattered inscriptions, I very much doubt the Parisii left enough evidence of their particular dialect to support a claim like that.

[Mediolanicus]

I was wondering if that Ribemont-sur-Ancre site many have something to do with the Parisii, before they were reduced to a muddy island sur la Seine? Or could the Parisii actually be a Belgae affiliate that was cut off from the main body?

That's a long lasting fight between French and Belgians historians. The French claim the Parisii are "Gauls", the Belgians think they are indeed a Belgian tribe, like the Remi, that was cut of from the main body.

[cmacq]

With all thing considered how would the Yorkshire Parisii play into these. To me this suggests at some point they must have occupied a larger territory in Gaul; one that provided an outlet to the sea.

[paullus]

I'm sorry, Elmetiacos, perhaps I didn't understand something in A.III's post that you were responding to, but why are you treating the Parisii as Q-Celtic? Wouldn't most scholars say they are P-Celtic/Continental?

edit: Would I be right in assuming that the Quariti reference would be a Q-Celtic name? What's the source for using that name, and could it be that those references are from a Q-Celtic source that's translating names into its own dialect?

[cmacq]

I believe the assumption is that at some point all/most Celt used on the Continental was a type of Q that over time shifted to or was replaced by P. Maybe initially on the continue P was more concentrated to the east of Q. This is a complex issue, but may be tied to where the Belgae came from? If this was inspired, at least in the north, by the Belgae also remains unclear. Given the nature of the langauge group, it had to have happened (that is the change itself), yet it's very unclear when and why this occurred. I do like a greatly reduced Quariti with a strong connection to the Chalons-sur-Marne area. However, this pulls them even further from the sea, unless they occupied a very large area.

By the way, heres another...
http://www.kelten.co.at/index_en.php?sub=inhalte_en

[Elmetiacos]

I'm sorry, Elmetiacos, perhaps I didn't understand something in A.III's post that you were responding to, but why are you treating the Parisii as Q-Celtic? Wouldn't most scholars say they are P-Celtic/Continental?

I'm saying that they weren't Q-Celtic speakers. The majority of scholars dismiss suggestions of Q-Celts in Gaul; even the name Sequani is explained by splitting it into seku-ani. "Parisi" has an actual P in the name.