Zulu

[fenir]

Hello Tosainu,

sorry haven't been back for while.

By todays measurements. Different time, different culture.

So speical forces by your measure? in that time? and because of their culture? Interesting.
And even by the standards of the day, hardly speical. Good fighters, oh yes, speical? No. Not by any standard.
Unless you have one you can historically prove? Because no one else can.

The Zulu said those moved inside the British lines during night. That is something different from simply moving troops

Again, the Zulu said, what over 100 years later someone said? Sorry by everyone lies. And after that long, and no written record, hardly even worth a mention. Again, someone said so it must be right.

PS: From my military experiance, moving inside another lines is hardly an amazing or spiecal feat. Moving inside the lines means, you have passed the forward sentries.
And it is not anything speical.

The Zulus didn't attack to take supplies, rout invaders or take prisoners. For the moment of the battle: hate

WIth that coment, I know two things.
1. you have never been a solider, and you have never been in combat. If you think people go to war, and fight for hate? You do not understand combat.
I say this because hate is the last emotion, in an otherwise un-emotion happening. The emotion comes after. It is more often the author that includes their own feelings when endearing such comments. In my personal experiance.
If soliders hate their enemy, it clouds their judgement, and means you don't respect them. I would not like denigrate the Zulus with such comments, not with the honour i have seen in them.

Conditions? Is finishing off a shot man counted as hand to hand combat?

Oh, now the miss-informed or opinion is revealed. You have obviously only watched Television, and never read the accounts of the battle relayed by the zulus, that placed this battle at the highest of honour among them. Yur disain for the British is certainly revealed. Espeically when you put them down with that sort of comment.
NOw you are trying to make out the usual Television pushed version that everyone was an idiot back in the day. ANd real intelligence only happened since you where born. how Disgusting.
I will leave you to actually find a book. Why? Because you own feelings and opinion is shining to bright for the truth.
You have not been objective, nor given credit to either side.

As for the conditions, the British had been incountry for longer than 6 weeks if i remember correctly, and it takes 10 days to aclimatise to new environments.
If you really beleive that experiance soliders that have fought so many wars, when always out numbered cannot put up a good fight, good enough to impress the Zulu in this case, then you have never read the history of the zulu.

And a quote from Jeff, who use to work with me here in sydney, The Zulu people hold the british in the highest of honour, because they came small in number, and fought like a warroir possed.
So there is another quote, from a zulu. So who can you believe now?

**********************************

Mr Frost.

For one, I never said the Zulu where stupid, in fact I pay them the highest honours for there battle expertise.
As for recieving as much training as a regular force british solider, or in fact even an officer. I would like to see your evidence, because no one else has any.
However, I certainly agree, Zulu's could out pace anyone in there day, as they where effectively light infantry.

As for the rest, My orginal observation stands.
In the British army we are shown, as with the USA. Examples of Elite, not speical forces.
And every exmple you have given is exactly that, elite, but not speical.
The Idea of speical forces is generally that of Strategic, not tactical. Though not always.

A tactical force is Elite, a speical forces is Strategic. Is probably the best way to discribe them. And to have speical forces, you do actually need to have a stable structured culture. And the Zulus did have that. But did not have speical forces.

So a hand picked group, is not speical forces, they are elite forces. They are picked because of Courage, Determination, and fighting prowess. Speical forces are trained to do certain tasks/jobs. They are not picked for their fighting prowess, or their courage. They are actually picked for determination. What is called never say die attitude.

And who trained me? HM forces.

Too many people today see something and say, speical forces. As if it raises the ira a little. When in 99% of all cases they are Elite forces. Like guards Units, like the Preatorian Guard, et cetera...
USA marines are considered elite, I would however from experiance, say only certain parts of them are. British Royal Marines are elite forces. SAS is speical forces. SBS are speical Forces. Guards units are elite forces. Navy seals are Speical Forces. French Legion, is considered to be an Elite force. But G3G9 is a Speical Force.
ALl these and others have several things in common. They are all trained for very specific tasks.
Elite forces are trained hard, and comprehensively, for regular duties.
The Zulu had elite forces within their troops, but no speical Forces.

And half of your post deals with things I have never said mr Frost. So i put it to you, are you not an apolegist?

You say primative does not mean stupid, but ignorance is stupidty. Just like blind faith, just like those that can't read and evaluate.

Now I will ask you a question.
How did the Zulu rank their best Warriors, and in what type of unit did they put them in?

I would still like to know, mr frost, where your fancy words came from, as their is no evidence to back them up.

Zulu did this, did that?
The Zulu where fantastic warriors. As for your other comments, they are your words, something i haven't, nor would say.

ONe final note: Speical forces are not used, In comabt. That is an utter waste. Elite force are.

Sincerely

fenir