Trapped in Taormina [Concluded]

[ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88]

Vote:Omanes

Keep a eye on a handful of people, active and lurkers, and I kept Omanes on my list.



Maybe Kukri. I doubt it, may be false, but mabybe there is a third women lead?

[LittleGrizzly]

Did I miss something here: Proletariat reveals that she was visited by the Prostitue, not Juliette-Ichigo. Is there a third female role?


this is what confused me i thought the prostitute was with ichigo but she was with prole... unless all 3 of them... ok probably not....

[TinCow]

Think no one is taking any notice of me about this wire thing so will try again with linkies...

does no one else think this is a bit odd?

are strangled with piano fibre and garotted with fibre wire really different signs? or was Ichigo fibbing and we lynched wrong person?

or is Andres not using calling cards? I'm having difficulty working that out from the rest - being suffocated (pillow and tongue) recurs, so does being tied up but its not very clear.

I agree that it seems most likely that 00jebus killed GH and was then hanged. My take on it was that strangling/garroting people was the Carelli signature. The different descriptions of the materials (fibre wire vs. piano fibre) is either simple creative license in describing the same items, or an intentionally slight variation to show kills by the two Carelli mafioso as distinct from one another. I think the latter is more likely.

Andres is definitely using calling cards. As you noted, the wire is re-appearing. Also, Julliete's brother's kills are clearly identifiable. I would expect the yakuza kills to continue in the kung-fu/sword manner. Those all seem to be calling cards to me.

[edit] Also, in case I forget to mention it later, I will be out-of-town this Thursday through Saturday. I will hopefully have internet access during that time and I expect to be able to post, but just in case I am wrong, please do not WoG me while I am gone.

[Mithrandir]

"Sudden inactivity" = 10 hour day-job. I hope your hunch works out for ya, but I'll tell ya, it's a wasted vote, if you're looking for scum or role-holders.

Did I miss something here: Proletariat reveals that she was visited by the Prostitue, not Juliette-Ichigo. Is there a third female role?

And yet when you're called you're here all of a sudden

Anyway, I still may change my vote if something convincing comes my way. I'm no good at this maffia thing when I read others posts.

Anyway, why a 3rd female role? Prole doesn't have to be female in this game, right?

[KukriKhan]

"Don't WoG me, bro!"

I thought the same about the garroting thing: 2 Carelli's (one = Jebuz), both using strangling wire. One Carelli is still on the loose among us.

[KukriKhan]

And yet when you're called you're here all of a sudden

Anyway, I still may change my vote if something convincing comes my way. I'm no good at this maffia thing when I read others posts.

Anyway, why a 3rd female role? Prole doesn't have to be female in this game, right?

I'll be "on" about 1 more hour, then gone for 10, as is my usual daily routine.

Prolie could just be a female townie, with Andres just having fun writing up a lesbian love scene. The issue is, if she and the Prostitute were together last night, then Ichigo-Juliette was not.

-edit-
With the clock ticking down, I'd better make a vote before I go.

Vote: Omanes
The other games I've seen him play in, he's been much more active in the public thread. I fear he's hiding secret scummy-ness. (No offense, old pal).

[Husar]

Probably because he was killed on Night 1.

Oops, I just looked at that postcount thingie and completely forgot.

There's still Sigurd though.

Did I miss something here: Proletariat reveals that she was visited by the Prostitue, not Juliette-Ichigo. Is there a third female role?

Well, it could be that she is a female townie just because she's a female female in which case she would not have a male role which would mean that she is not a male killer and thus innocent. One could call that a slip-up on Andres's part but we could stop worrying about her then. It's just a guess but for now it's good enough to lower my suspicion of her.

I would like to hear what Sigurd thinks, he's an experienced player and dangerous mafioso, if he won't respond I will vote for him.

[Privateerkev]

FoS: PK
Twice as many posts as anyone else.

Stimulating conversation is a service. With so many lurkers, it makes it even harder to keep good conversation going. If my chattyness can help us analyze the situation, I am happy. ^_^

or is Andres not using calling cards? I'm having difficulty working that out from the rest - being suffocated (pillow and tongue) recurs, so does being tied up but its not very clear.

The first pillow was probably Carelli. It was against Semus and he hadn't voted against Ichigo so I doubt it was Juliette's brother. The tongue was almost certainly Juliette's brother because of the "family" reference.

So I think Andres is using calling cards but he is not tied to them. I think the Carellis are using your basic mafia hit weapons. Expect wire, knives, guns, ect...

Did I miss something here: Proletariat reveals that she was visited by the Prostitue, not Juliette-Ichigo. Is there a third female role?

My guess is that Prole is a female townie. (do all townies have to automatically be male?) I think she is telling the truth about the prostitute reveal. If she was lying, the prostitute could just tell Ichigo and Ichigo would tell us.

[Makanyane]

Andres is definitely using calling cards. As you noted, the wire is re-appearing. Also, Julliete's brother's kills are clearly identifiable. I would expect the yakuza kills to continue in the kung-fu/sword manner. Those all seem to be calling cards to me.

I assume the two that mentioned hating / insulting the killers family - which would mean brother killed Makaikhaan and Glenn

I agree that it seems most likely that 00jebus killed GH and was then hanged. My take on it was that strangling/garroting people was the Carelli signature. The different descriptions of the materials (fibre wire vs. piano fibre) is either simple creative license in describing the same items, or an intentionally slight variation to show kills by the two Carelli mafioso as distinct from one another. I think the latter is more likely.

only thing I can't resolve in own head if that is true is who killed Seamus then?

Later that night, a well dressed man entered Seamus room. he took his pillow and choked him to dead.

The experienced killer took his sharp stiletto and stabbed it through the soft bit at the back of Seamus' head, just for good measure.

I thought from role description that hitman couldn't kill anyone else till he'd killed Juliette



am just genuinely confused and hoping someone can convince me we are actually on right track after all!

EDIT: hadn't read PK's post - was typing slowly as usual....
explanation about mafia (Carelli) calling cards being mixed is plausible I suppose - but I'm still not very confident about it

[naut]

Hmmm, it's getting really hard to judge. I need some time to think about this before I make a useful vote.

Vote: Abstain

Tally:

Curio = 1 (woad&fangs)
Omanes = 3 (Sasaki, AntiWarman, KukriKhan)
BananaBob = 1 (TinCow)
LittleGrizzly = 1 (Ichi)
Mak = 1 (EF)
KukriKhan = 1 (Mith)

Abstain = 3 (Curio, LittleGrizzly, Ryth)

[Privateerkev]

only thing I can't resolve in own head if that is true is who killed Seamus then?

I thought from role description that hitman couldn't kill anyone else till he'd killed Juliette

am just genuinely confused and hoping someone can convince me we are actually on right track after all!

EDIT: hadn't read PK's post - was typing slowly as usual....
explanation about mafia (Carelli) calling cards being mixed is plausible I suppose - but I'm still not very confident about it

I'm not sure either but it is just a guess.

I think there is something else we should consider.

We are all assuming that the "man in cloak" is Juliette's brother, but what if he isn't?

What evidence do we have that her brother wears a cloak? None.

We only assume it because we are assuming there are no secret roles. But what if there are?

If there are, then Seamus could have been killed by the real man in cloak.

This is totally a guess but we should not assume that we will know about every role from the beginning. It seems normal in Mafia for there to be secret roles.

[TinCow]

Seamus' death is indeed a conundrum. As PK notes, it is possible that there are secret roles we do not know about at all. I initially assumed there were not, because the rules do not state that there are any secret roles, which most games seem to do. However, I agree that Juliette's brother just doesn't seem consistent with the secret nature of the MiB. If Juliette's brother is not the MiB, then he is not listed at all in the intro post to this game, which means there is at least one secret role. If there's one secret role, there are probably more than one.

So, Seamus' kill could have been done by a role we are not aware of. That, however, strikes me as wrong. If there's a super top secret killer out there, it makes no sense for them to kill on Night 1, but not 2 or 3. If a killer is going to kill, they're going to do it regularly. If they're going to remain stealthy, there is no reason to kill on Night 1.

The only other option I really see is that Ichigo was lying about 00jebus and either fingered an innocent player or altered his investigation results to show that 00jebus killed in a manner that he did not. While I don't completely trust Ichigo, that's just my natural instinct. Everything he has said so far has been consistent with the evidence, and I can't find any real reason for him to lie. So, I have to conclude at least for now that Ichigo was telling the truth.

There's a lot of ifs in this reasoning, but going with the most probable scenario as I see it (no secret role killer on Seamus, Ichigo telling the truth) the conclusion I reach is indeed that the Seamus was either killed by the Hitman, the Carellis, or the yakuza. It would make no sense for the Hitman to kill on Night 1, even if he could, though, because he has that crazy powerful triple investigation ability and his objective is to find Juliette, not kill random people. That leaves the Carellis and the yakuza. While Seamus' death does not match either the kung-fu or strangling style of either, it is at least in the style of a 'classic' Italian mob hit, not East Asian.

So, my conclusion is that Seamus was probably killed by the Carellis. The question then remains whether it was a variable calling card or perhaps there is a third Carelli we are not aware of.

[Privateerkev]

For now, I am very much at a loss as to who to vote for. A lot of the lurkers are looking suspicious. But I don't know which lurkers are normal lurkers and which ones are acting differently from other games.

For now, I'll go with Omanes. Glenn, and others have said that he is acting different. While others don't trust Glenn's judgement, I do.

For lack of a better target, that will have to do for now.

vote: Omanes

tally:

Omanes = 4 (Sasaki, AntiWarman, KukriKhan, Privateerkev)

Curio = 1 (woad&fangs)
BananaBob = 1 (TinCow)
LittleGrizzly = 1 (Ichi)
Mak = 1 (EF)
KukriKhan = 1 (Mith)

Abstain = 3 (Curio, LittleGrizzly, Ryth)

[LittleGrizzly]

tally:

Omanes = 4 (Sasaki, AntiWarman, KukriKhan, Privateerkev)

Curio = 1 (woad&fangs)
BananaBob = 1 (TinCow)
LittleGrizzly = 1 (Ichi)
Mak = 1 (EF)
KukriKhan = 1 (Mith)

Abstain = 3 (Curio, LittleGrizzly, Ryth)


Im probably going to change my vote from abstain to someone pretty soon, but have we got any decent targets ?

Omanes is behaving differently, could be nothing but its something more than we have on anyone else

Makanyane seems to be trying to gain negative attention to already almost certainly pro-town players. I have no doubt about Ichigo's reveal and Curio was one of the ones who helped save him so why are you picking on those two?

the reasoning for the mak vote seems sensible enough

I wasn't picking on Curio - just asking what he was expecting....

I don't think we should be too complacent about Ichigo's reveal though - last time I thought all the pro-town reveals and secretive pro-town clique were rather too convenient and suspicious (TC in Netherworld) I was actually right btw... (unfortunately I was also then the other mafia)

also the write up of the failed attack last night includes a 'piano fibre', GH was killed with 'fibre wire' - but wasn't the wire meant to be the lynched 00Jebus's calling card?


mak's reply, i am also sightly suspicious of ichigo's reveal so mak doesn't seem like the best target

unvote : Omanes
Vote: Kukrikhan

Sudden inactivity and a hunch.


without more explanation of the hunch no reason for KK to be a target, his activity levels seem about the same as capo II where he was a good guy, so explain the hunch to us ?

I agree that we've got way too many lurkers. BananaBob was relatively verbose in Netherworld, but his contributions here have been limited to these three gems. His abstain caught my eye the first time I saw it, since he had been happy to bandwagon GH in the first round, but was then proving cautious on the second round, when we actually had a few things to discuss.

Vote: BananaBob

How does this compare to his usual activity levels ? from the posts you linked his contributions seem rather limited, anything to say bananabob ?

in his defence somebody was saying an abstain vote in the first round was scummy and gives nothing to analyze and maybe he just couldn't think of a good target 2nd round which i can sympathise with

Vote:LittleGrizzly I'd like to hear more from him and Northnovas. Both have been semi-lurking, but LG hasn't posted since the beginning of the game iirc.


im here and talking :) need more to go on than just lurking...

also, vote: Curio. I got bored last night and started looking at peoples profiles. You were PMing someone. I then looked at your recent posts on the forum. I didn't find any obvious reason for you to PM someone unless it involved this game.

I know it's pretty flimsy evidence so I'll change my vote if a better suspect is brought up.

this vote the poster admits is on flimsy evidence, curio was working with glenn and someone else as well so possibly pro-town

I thought it would help to have all the reasoning for votes into one post with my opinion on the vote and reasoning

Edit: post below the votefor curio

he was PM'ing me. we were chatting.
Glenn, Curio, and I had formed a small little townie group to share information and ideas.
But now Glenn is dead...


so thats the reasoning for the pm'ing

[TinCow]

How does this compare to his usual activity levels ? from the posts you linked his contributions seem rather limited, anything to say bananabob ?

in his defence somebody was saying an abstain vote in the first round was scummy and gives nothing to analyze and maybe he just couldn't think of a good target 2nd round which i can sympathise with

I only know him from Netherworld, where his activity level was much higher. However, he did have a role in that game (Doctor), so the disparity in posting frequency and length could indicate that he's just not as interested in this game because he didn't get a role. My vote was mainly to encourage him to speak up. I do not think he is a good enough candidate for the actual lynching.

[Ferret]

you know during the PM Prole quoted it didn't mention she had a female role anywhere, just very strange sexual fantasies.

[Privateerkev]

you know during the PM Prole quoted it didn't mention she had a female role anywhere, just very strange sexual fantasies.

Here is what Andres's report says,

It was rumored that this room was occupied by a lovely woman on holiday.

So, we're assuming Prole is playing a female townie. Like I said earlier, I don't know why all townies have to automatically be male.

[LittleGrizzly]

That whole rumored part made me wonder but further down in andres report

Unfortunately, the women were in one of the more expensive rooms of the hotel...

that seems pretty definite

[Privateerkev]

That whole rumored part made me wonder but further down in andres report

Unfortunately, the women were in one of the more expensive rooms of the hotel...

that seems pretty definite

I think that is describing what the men thought. The men certainly assumed there were women in the room. But there seems to be no actual proof.

I'm not sure why this really matters though.

[Haudegen]

Omanes is active in the Colosseum at the moment. Let´s see if he´ll visit us now.

Vote: abstain

[Privateerkev]

We only have a few hours to go and less than half of the people here have even voted...

We have way too many lurkers...

[Makanyane]

gah - not getting any more inspiration for this...

so vote:abstain

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

Sorry I wasn't here folks - I've been intensively working on Gahzette proof reading. As I said, my apologies for being inactive. Anyhow, back to business:

Quite honestly I have no idea who to vote for this phase. Anybody with the remotest level of suspicion has been killed or lynched leaving us in a risky situation. I don't believe in analysis of write-ups - they tell us nothing about who the murderer was.

Henceforth, Vote: Abstain

[Husar]

Vote: Sigurd Fafnesbane

I may be barking up the wrong tree here, but he is quiet and Omanes just said all suspects are getting killed, which looks like an attempt to kill off discussion, which seems pretty clever and like something Sigurd would do.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Well, he could also be enjoying the summer with his family outside, but on one hand it's the best thing I can come up with now and on the other hand people who want to enjoy the sun should not join mafia games.

[Privateerkev]

updated tally:

Omanes = 4 (Sasaki, AntiWarman, KukriKhan, Privateerkev)

Curio = 1 (woad&fangs)
BananaBob = 1 (TinCow)
LittleGrizzly = 1 (Ichi)
Mak = 1 (EF)
KukriKhan = 1 (Mith)
Sigurd Fafnesbane = 1 (Husar)

Abstain = 6 (Curio, LittleGrizzly, Ryth, Haudegen, Makanyane, Omanes Alexandrapolites)

Ok, we have just over half of the people alive voting.

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

Husar makes a good point there actually - I've just taken a look at Sigurd's posts, and I must confess that, although there is nothing wrong with them, they seem to be very scarce. If I remember rightly, isn't he normally at the forefront of the pro-town discussion creating movement? He's also the only mafia veteran which hasn't been killed off yet.

Unvote: Abstain ; Vote: Sigurd Fafnesbane

[Makanyane]

Vote: Sigurd Fafnesbane

I may be barking up the wrong tree here, but he is quiet and Omanes just said all suspects are getting killed, which looks like an attempt to kill off discussion, which seems pretty clever and like something Sigurd would do.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Well, he could also be enjoying the summer with his family outside, but on one hand it's the best thing I can come up with now and on the other hand people who want to enjoy the sun should not join mafia games.

hmm, well Omanes excuse about gahzette seems credible....

will probably regret this but think Husar might be onto something

unvote:abstain vote:Sigurd Fafnesbane


Omanes = 4 (Sasaki, AntiWarman, KukriKhan, Privateerkev)
Sigurd Fafnesbane = 2 (Husar, Makanyane)

Curio = 1 (woad&fangs)
BananaBob = 1 (TinCow)
LittleGrizzly = 1 (Ichi)
Mak = 1 (EF)
KukriKhan = 1 (Mith)


Abstain = 6 (Curio, LittleGrizzly, Ryth, Haudegen, Omanes Alexandrapolites)

Where did everyone else go???

[Tiberius of the Drake]

Ive been abvsent too much and therefore have no right to make a vote at this time.

Vote:Abstain

[Makanyane]

corrected tally as hadn't seen Omanes post

Omanes = 4 (Sasaki, AntiWarman, KukriKhan, Privateerkev)
Sigurd Fafnesbane = 3 (Husar, Makanyane, Omanes Alexandrapolites)

Curio = 1 (woad&fangs)
BananaBob = 1 (TinCow)
LittleGrizzly = 1 (Ichi)
Mak = 1 (EF)
KukriKhan = 1 (Mith)


Abstain = 5 (Curio, LittleGrizzly, Ryth, Haudegen, Tiberius)


*gah* now less convinced as Omanes went for Sigurd as possible saviour....


EDIT: corrected abstain number and included Tiberius
EDIT2: I really can't count

[Privateerkev]

I would feel bad voting for someone who was busy working on the Gahzette.

I like the Gahzette...

I'll defer to other people's opinion on Sigurd. I don't see anything wrong with his posts but others have.

unvote: Omanes; vote: Sigurd

Sigurd Fafnesbane = 4 (Husar, Makanyane, Omanes Alexandrapolites, Privateerkev)

Omanes = 3 (Sasaki, AntiWarman, KukriKhan)


Curio = 1 (woad&fangs)
BananaBob = 1 (TinCow)
LittleGrizzly = 1 (Ichi)
Mak = 1 (EF)
KukriKhan = 1 (Mith)


Abstain = 5 (Curio, LittleGrizzly, Ryth, Haudegen, Tiberius)