Trapped in Taormina [Concluded]

[Gaius Scribonius Curio]

OK, going to be inactive for at least 24 hours, due to RL stuff, work, sport and sleep being among them.

Before I go, Vote:Abstain

Events are moving too quickly currently for me, in good conscience, to vote for someone, who knowing my luck will be innocent and then get lynched because of me.

However, FOS: Husar, Little Grizzly, and Haudegan

Husar, the reasons are my own above, doesn't need to be explained further.

Little Grizzly has, as mentioned been doing an extremely good job of lurking, hence under the radar suspicion. Plus Ichigo's hint. Kind of compelling, but I'd like to see LG's answer to this, before I vote for him.

Haudegan, you ask? Well if Little Grizzly's been doing a good job of lurking and yet avoiding suspicion, then Haudegan has too. Look at his post history, (I'm sorry I don't have time to post it all here, as I said RL takes precedence atm). So far only one constructive post, and even then not particularly compelling. Also, (more importantly), I present to you, assorted members of the town, exhibit A:

Yep

Vote: LittleGrizzly

I'm sorry but that, ladies and gentlemen of the jury, is what is known as a blatant bandwagon in its purest form, not even an attempt at justification, and possibly for no actual constructive reason (aside from attempting to avoid suspicion falling onto himself, in which case he has failed). Again I'd like to hear his defence, before I randomly vote, which means I won't actually, in all probability vote for him.

I trust the town will consider this in my absence.

Curio

[Andres]

To make things clear:

NO PRIVATE REVEALS!

NIGHT ACTIONS NOR ROLES CAN BE REVEALED IN PRIVATE.

[Ferret]

wow too many posts to read in one go. Back on page 23 I agree about Axel. People who make no contribution but are not WoGed when other, more active, people are they must have some kind of special role.

vote:Axel

[Sigurd]

The Husar votes are based off of Sigurd's lies.

Something felt very scummy about Sigurd. But, there was one yakuza and one Carelli style hit last night. As well as Manfredo and Juliette's brother.

So I don't know who Sigurd was but I do not trust him.

I guess I’ll use PrivaterK’s entry to start off my rebuttal.

I have not lied in any of my posts. If there is anyone behind the scenes that claims this, you would better be careful. They lead a scummy agenda.
I revealed my results publically and they aren’t saying much. However one sticks out and that was Husar. It mentioned all night. In PrivaterK’s case it just stated out of bed. If we remember, it was the night when a lot of people gathered to listen through Prole’s door when she was with the prostitute.
I guess last night clears me of any guilt as there were 4 attempts and 3 kills which cater for all known mafia and killer roles. I think many of you are smart enough to figure out what is going on.

I shall mention something concerning Ichigo that I don’t think breaks any of the rules.
We had a conversation a few days ago when I was still alive. He mentioned that he had made a list of whom to investigate and that he had used random.org to produce it. I suggested flippantly that he might have received the same list as Andres when he made the role candidates. Ichigo didn’t laugh that much because his list returned himself on top. He then got the prostitute as the second name and 00jebus third and then a list of names I am not going to mention.
He was going to investigate them in order. All I will say is that LittleGrizzly was on that list. I don’t know if Ichigo got around to actually investigating L.Grizz, but I can imagine why Ichigo is hinting.

I am watching the progression here and I can't spot any obvious mistakes.
PrivaterKev and Gaius S Curio seems to be working in a behind scene network with perhaps Rythmic.
Rythmic seems to know more about Husar than the rest of us.
This can only mean two things, either someone revealed in private or there might be roles knowing about other roles.

Sasaki is being very careful... He is reluctant to push any player.
I have my eye on a few other players as well.

[Husar]

His reveal was somewhat scummy, but the lack of definite denial in husar is also scummy.?

Oh well, if you want that, I'm not mafia or any other sort of killer, just a townie.
If you want to know where a townie could have been on night one, maybe in the pub or watching the volcano with some bbqing.
Apart from that I maintain that it was simply made up, how can I explain where I've been without having been anywhere, how on earth do you think I figured that Sigurd was lying other than that he was?
If that still isn't enough for you then maybe you want my townie PM?
Privateerkev already confirmed that Sigurd is lying.

[Makanyane]

Just one interesting thing
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...5&postcount=65

host watching.... Andres in other thread saying

Usual standard practice is mafia always has the same amount of kills each night, even when they are down to one.

So do you think that means the Carellis only ever had one kill per night?
in case that effects any calculation of what people were doing / not doing

[Northnovas]

unvote: Husar

tally:

axel: 3 (Privateerkev, pevergreen, LittleGrizzly)

LittleGrizzly: 3 (Rythmic, Haudegan, Makanyane)

Sasaki: 1 (Tincow)
Husar: 1 (Sasaki Kojiro)
pevergreen: 1 (woad&fangs)
sarathos: 1 (Mithrandir

[Makanyane]

unvote: Husar

why? because you're convinced by Husar's denial - or because you distrust Sigurd?

[Northnovas]

A little of both but I still have time to put it back on I want to see what else develops. LittleGrizzly is looking like a possibility too.

[KukriKhan]

Thankyouthankyouthankyou!

Finally, someone who is speaking sense!

Concentrate on those who are active.

I respectfully disagree. As soon as I forcefully criticized the lurkers, I got snuffed. So I was seen as a threat. If I could vote, I'd work my way up the list of names, starting with the players with the lowest in-thread post-count.

With all the dead townie bodies laying about, the odds of "getting" a maf are greatly increased, IMO.

[TinCow]

That's simply not true. You are not allowed to reveal privately, so the prostitute could not have pm'd ichigo. A public reveal in this case would have resulted in my lynching. Also, if I had been lying, I would have been blocked the following night as well, and indeed every night since. The only possible conclusion is that I was telling the truth.

As for husar, you said yourself that the manner he explained himself made him suspicious. Sigurd died and yet there were 4 kill attempts. His reveal was somewhat scummy, but the lack of definite denial in husar is also scummy.

Is it also your belief that northnovas and curio are scum?

I have no opinion yet on Northnovas. Curio I am leaning towards townie, but he has no evidence for or against him, so I remain open minded about him.

My problem with Husar comes from the fact that Sigurd's 'investigations' were unbelievably scummy. There is definitely some truth in them, based on Husar's reaction. However, I am also inclined to believe PK's statement about Sigurd lying about him. PK just doesn't strike me as mafia. He has been acting exactly as he always does in this game, and it would be nearly impossible for anyone to pull off such a perfect cover from the first turn of their first game. I learned enough in Capo II to let me win Netherworld, but I severely botched Capo II. So, I believe PK is genuine, which means I believe his statements about Sigurd's results on him.

This all means that Sigurd has accurate investigation results, but also falsified at least one of them. There is no way the real detective would do this. I thus conclude that Sigurd is not the real detective. As noted before, the only other options are Taketski and the MiB. Since we don't even know if the MiB can investigate (I still think it more likely that he's Juliette's brother), I think Sigurd was Taketski. This has a major impact on Husar's situation. Husar was out 'doing something' on Night 1, but he was also innocent, which means he didn't kill. The Carellis killed on Night 1 and they cannot investigate. Therefore Husar is not the Carellis. Sigurd was (IMO) Taketski, so Husar is not Taketski. Ichigo was Juliette, so Husar is not Juliette. This leaves the hitman, the MiB, the prostitute, and the real detective. The latter two are pure pro-town. The Hitman is neutral and has the option of joining either town or mafia now that Juliette is dead. It would be nice to get a vigilante on our side. The MiB is unknown, but since I think he's probably Juliette's brother, he's also essentially neutral. So, as I see it, Husar is either pro-town, or neutral with the power to aid the town. I definitely want to hear more from him, but I think lynching him would be an ungodly bad error.

I do think there was a way for the prostitute to communicate with Ichigo without making a reveal, but perhaps thats just because I'm used to thinking about ways around the rules. I will accept Andres' post as a statement saying that such a transfer of information was not allowed, even if I can imagine ways to do it. I will therefore remove my vote from Sasaki, but I encourage everyone to keep their eyes on him. My experience with him makes me very cautious around him (that's a compliment, Sasaki).

Unvote: Sasaki
Vote: Haudegen

Curio explained it all. Very bad vote by Haudegen.

[Makanyane]

If Sigurd was was Taketski, who (which role) could have attacked you last night? That seems to be the only flaw in that arguement.

Another secret role with investigative powers seems like remote possibility - another one with attack powers seems a bit much...


I also agree that the MiB is probably the brother though - as Sasaki picked up the first post talks about the MiB grinning and all the brothers kills have mentioned grinning (I think, working off memory not had time to double check that)

[Privateerkev]

Sigurd is lying. Townies do not come up in investigation results as "out of bed".

What is your game Sigurd?

As for the suspects, LG and Haudegen certainly seem scummy. But I am keeping my sights set on Axel in case anyone else forgets about him. If he doesn't get WoG'd, then it will be confirmed he has a role. But I rather lynch him and not take the chance.

new tally:

axel: 4 (Privateerkev, pevergreen, LittleGrizzly, Elite Ferret)

LittleGrizzly: 3 (Rythmic, Makanyane, Haudegen)

Haudegen: 1 (TinCow)
Husar: 1 (Sasaki Kojiro)
pevergreen: 1 (woad&fangs)
sarathos: 1 (Mithrandir)

Abstain: 1 (Gaius Scribonius Curio)

[LittleGrizzly]

Well i think i explained my few days of absence and since then i have returned and tryed to be helpful, i generally try not to post unless i have got something to say and even when i do post im just making observations and collecting facts, im not great at reading people so i haven't got a whole lot i could contribute anyway.

Check out my contributions in Capo II fairly similar in style and frequency excluding the few days i missed here because of my friends PS3. Check out the backroom during that absence from here i think i only posted once there, which is under my usual posting rate.

I mean i don't see how my agreeing with PK's reasoning is scummy, it seems sensible enough to me, how can a player whose done less than those wog'd survive ? by sending pm's is the answer

How come im getting voted for lurking when theres far worse lurkers around ? like axel for one example, ive obviously been doing enough not to get wog'd and those few days are the only gap.

Im not sure what Ichigo is on about, he cannot have investigated me and think im scum, if he didn't get round to investigating me then i don't understand what his 'hint' is all about as he has nothing more than anyone else to base it on and if he did investigate me then he must be scum, but were all pretty sure he isn't ?

ill post more later but im in the middle of an essay a sec

check my posting record well i wasn't posting in here!! (don't forget)

Edit: if you take out the gap where i was away i have made every vote and practically posted each day and night phase

[Sigurd]

I see confusion rules…
I was lynched and had a few minutes to spill what I had before I got the noose or in this case a bullet all while watching an important game on TV. (I blame you who lynched me for my team's loss)

I will restate what I am allowed to say. I have not claimed to be the detective; the results I presented are nearly identical to those I got from Andres.
I had no time to go into my pm box to get them out and wrote them from memory. I made an update at the request of a player and I believe I got a thank you from another player.

Sigurd is lying. Townies do not come up in investigation results as "out of bed".

Right… and you know this because?

Have you all forgotten this?:

Sorry, Sigurd died and is no longer allowed to discuss about his night actions.

This seems like an attest from the game moderator, if I have ever seen one.

[Privateerkev]

I will restate what I am allowed to say. I have not claimed to be the detective; the results I presented are nearly identical to those I got from Andres.

nearly? o_O

I had no time to go into my pm box to get them out and wrote them from memory. I made an update at the request of a player and I believe I got a thank you from another player.

It's quicker to cut and paste your PM's than it is to type.

Right… and you know this because?

Because investigating me will not give the result you claim.

I find TC's theory that your Taketsi to be intriguing. However there was an attempted kill last night that seems like a yakuza hit.

But something about you smells like scum...

[Haudegen]

Curio, TinCow,

I voted LG because from my (perhaps flawed) interpretation of Ichigos statements (# 709 and #711) I believed that he meant that LG and Northnovas were guilty. Since Ichigo was almost certainly pro-town and had some investigation results, I took this as a sufficient reason to vote LG.

Apparently Makanyane understood Ichigo´s statement in the same way.

And: If Ichigo meant to say that LG and NN had pro-town roles in fact (as mentioned, I´m confused about this point), wouldn´t it be a rather foolish move to publish their names?

Perhaps someone can help me understand Ichigo.

Unvote: LG

for now.

[Sigurd]

It's quicker to cut and paste your PM's than it is to type.

Not if you have to open three pms on a laptop with a Wi Fi connection.
It took me nearly 2 minuttes just to edit out your name. And why did you thank me for editing out you name.. why didn't you or your buddy accuse me of lies then? Is that a wiff of guilty I smell on you?

Because investigating me will not give the result you claim.

Yet it did.

I find TC's theory that your Taketsi to be intriguing. However there was an attempted kill last night that seems like a yakuza hit.

Who have you been discussing with behind the scenes?
How can I have been Taketsiwhen there were 4 attempted murders last night? If I were, then there must be more roles than Andres listed.

[Privateerkev]

It took me nearly 2 minuttes just to edit out your name. And why did you thank me for editing out you name.. why didn't you or your buddy accuse me of lies then?

I sent you no such PM.

Yet it did.

It is impossible. Townies can not be seen as "out of the house but innocent."

For some reason, you are trying to confuse the town. You've pretty much admitted your not the detective so why should we believe anything you say?

Who have you been discussing with behind the scenes?

TC just theorized right here on the thread that you may be Taketsi.

How can I have been Taketsi when there were 4 attempted murders last night? If I were, then there must be more roles than Andres listed.

I have long suspected that there are roles in the game that are not up on the first post. If your Taketsi, you could have a yakuza buddy running around on the loose. Perhaps you were allowed to recruit before you got lynched.

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

The game seems a little slow at the moment. Too many people are not posting, voting and without any excuses either.

Husar's reaction to Sigurd's comments do not make me think of him as scum - they don't have that mafia style aggressive "fight back" tone to them. I wouldn't really trust Sigurd's results personally, but he's dead so otherwise he's not worth worrying about.

LittleGrizzly, well, I suppose Ichigo's hint over him is a good reason for a vote, but those that appeared and simply jumped on the bandwaggon immediatley afterwards with minimal comments also probably are worth examining. I've checked Haudgen's posts, since he was one of those to jump on the waggon immediately.

Esentially what we have is minimal and quite "let's go along with what everybody else says" attitude. This took my interest more than anything though. At what stage did Ichigo suggest that Manfredo was makikhaan? Nobody replied to it or furtherly mentioned it, so it didn't get looked into.

I'm uncertain about it, but I'd like to see Haudgen's response.

Vote: Haudgen

[Privateerkev]

At what stage did Ichigo suggest that Manfredo was makikhaan? Nobody replied to it or furtherly mentioned it, so it didn't get looked into.

Ichigo suspected Khaan on a hunch. But since it seems Manfredo killed Juliette while Khaan was dead, it seems to be a wrong hunch.

updated tally:

axel: 4 (Privateerkev, pevergreen, LittleGrizzly, Elite Ferret)

LittleGrizzly: 2 (Rythmic, Makanyane)
Haudegen: 2 (TinCow, Omanes Alexandrapolites)

Husar: 1 (Sasaki Kojiro)
pevergreen: 1 (woad&fangs)
sarathos: 1 (Mithrandir)

Abstain: 1 (Gaius Scribonius Curio)

[Proletariat]

Husar seems really close to his usual indignant townie self, even with his weak answer. Sigurd can't be trusted, no way can we buy this 'it's faster to type up stuff and hit c&p.'

Neither of the Haudegan or Little Grizzly lynches seem that solid, so I'll flip a coin... and Vote: Haudegan. Would be nice to hear more out of axel

[Privateerkev]

Husar seems really close to his usual indignant townie self, even with his weak answer. Sigurd can't be trusted, no way can we buy this 'it's faster to type up stuff and hit c&p.'

Neither of the Haudegan or Little Grizzly lynches seem that solid, so I'll flip a coin... and Vote: Haudegan. Would be nice to hear more out of axel

It would be nice to hear anything out of Axel

If it makes you feel any better, I figured out there is no way you can be the serial killer. You were with the prostitute on the same turn the SK killed someone.

Since I've voiced my suspicion about you a couple of times, I thought it would only be nice to balance it out a little. ^_^

tally:

axel: 4 (Privateerkev, pevergreen, LittleGrizzly, Elite Ferret)

Haudegen: 3 (TinCow, Omanes Alexandrapolites, Proletariat)

LittleGrizzly: 2 (Rythmic, Makanyane)

Husar: 1 (Sasaki Kojiro)
pevergreen: 1 (woad&fangs)
sarathos: 1 (Mithrandir)

Abstain: 1 (Gaius Scribonius Curio)

[Haudegen]

I'm uncertain about it, but I'd like to see Haudgen's response.

Vote: Haudgen

Errr, it´s right there.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...57#post1921857

[LittleGrizzly]

Before Ichigo was killed, he told me he was investigating LG. I wonder what he found. I know he can't discuss night actions but he can at least give his opinion like Khaan has been doing.


I told you, I thought he had a role. Him and Northnovas.


Originally Posted by Privateerkev
Yeah but how do you feel about him now?


Since I know who the prostitute and the "supposed" detective are, it should be pretty obvious

this is the sum total of ichigo's hint.... he thought me and northnovas had roles and since he now knows 2 roles its obvious

what im assuming he's implying by its obvious is that if me or northnovas had a role it has to be a bad one seen as he knows who has the good roles, but he only thought i had a role, so its only obvious that im scum if ichigo's first thought was right, by the sounds of whats been going on here i don't think ichigo got the chance to investigate me because he wouldn't be dropping me in it like this or he would be hinting at my innocence.

[Makanyane]

Nothing's looking that certain about anybody at the moment....

In desperation, the one thing I've not been sure about mentioning before is The Stranger's replacement by Elite Ferret.

TS specifically asked to be substituted, not suicided or Wog'd, that was seems to imply he had a role other than townie, https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...&postcount=314
and he was replaced....

what does anyone else think about that? EF do you have any comment?

[Privateerkev]

what does anyone else think about that? EF do you have any comment?

There is certainly the possibility that EF inherited whatever role TS had. But going over TS's posts, I think he just misunderstood something when he voted for me. So, I have been content to see how EF acts and not judge him by what TS did. EF hasn't done anything I can see that has been very suspicious.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I think Sigurd was Taketski. This has a major impact on Husar's situation. Husar was out 'doing something' on Night 1, but he was also innocent, which means he didn't kill.

I had taken the view that even if sigurd was mafia, there was no reason to assume he wasn't trying to take other mafia down with him.

Husar's reaction is strange, but now that time has passed it looks too laid back to make him seem scummy. One would expect more vigor.

The little grizzly wagon is ridiculous. unvote,vote:axel

This game is in need of a reread.

[Northnovas]

Taking PK's observation.

Vote: Axel

[Ferret]

I think that may have just been theStranger's preference, I know I would rather be replaced than waste on of the slots in the game. Besides I didn't replace him straight away and Andres wouldn't have let an important role waft around for a few turns, with no certainty of being replaced. If you like I can post what Andres sent me upon joining though I'm not sure if the townie Pm has already been posted.