Walltakers Anonymous

**mir** · 05-06-2008, 02:01

I just discovered very late in the game (much to my embarassment) that Hashashim make excellent walltakers. Even when rushing the walls with ladders they literally *shrug* off arrows and bolts (!), rush up the ladders (ok, kinda exaggerating here) and then slaughter the defenders (not exaggerating here).

While I usually prefer to use siege towers most of the time, I find that for Hashashim, ladders are better since it allows them to *run* forward and scale the walls quicker.

This proved to be a huge boon to my campaigns - during sieges, I now advance with Hashashim first, once they're up the walls, my spear units and Janissaries follow up to support (they make lousy walltakers sadly).

So, for the purpose of research, as it were, which units do you think/believe/know make good/great/excellent walltakers?

**PBI** · 05-06-2008, 02:34

Generally any kind of one-handed heavy infantry should do the trick. I usually go for DFKs, although armour-piercing guys such as dismounted huscarls are usually even better if the walls defenders are any good (which thankfully they usually aren't). Hashashim are probably the best wall-takers in the game. Flagellants are also pretty good if you can get them, cheap, plentiful, armour-piercing and high morale. In fact, I would say heavy infantry aren't really good for much else besides wall-taking.

In general, just remember that the defenders get a big advantage on the walls; defending spear militia are roughly a match for attacking armoured sergeants, defending armoured sergeants are roughly equivalent to attacking DFKs, etc. In order to have a good chance of a successful assault you need to use attacking troops who are much better than the defenders.

I used to hate trying to win sieges by taking the walls directly, I generally preferred to flatten the walls with siege equipment and force the enemy to retreat to the center, but I'm becoming more comfortable with doing sieges "properly" i.e. taking the walls by storm. I was put off for a long time by my first disastrous attempt at storming a castle, but I'm finding I'm getting the hang of it more now. It is key, however, to accept a certain number of casualties, especially if the settlement is well defended.

**Anonymous II** · 05-06-2008, 12:10

Originally Posted by Poor Bloody Infantry

In fact, I would say heavy infantry aren't really good for much else besides wall-taking.

What about hand-to-hand battle with spearmen?

**PBI** · 05-06-2008, 12:27

They're good at it, but in the field I find I rarely see a good old infantry-infantry scrap that isn't made irrelevant by a cavalry charge to the rear. Heavy infantry are good against spears, but in my experience archers and cavalry are better. Spears just aren't effective enough against cavalry charges to make heavy infantry irreplaceable, and they themselves are dangerously vulnerable to cavalry charges.

However, both archers and cavalry are useless at dislodging enemy defenders from a wall. Heavy infantry are the only unit which can do this. They are specialist siege troops in my opinion. The field belongs to the cavalry.

Incidentally, I have a suspicion that while units are actually climbing ladders, they cannot be harmed. Can anyone confirm/refute this? I certainly have never seen anyone shot from the ladders whilst climbing, even though you'd think it would be a dangerous job. Or is it just that they're hard for the towers to hit while they're climbing?

**Vladimir** · 05-06-2008, 12:53

In my limited experience with sieges (remember Sun Tsu, you shouldn't fight a siege in less you have no other choice) it only takes a few shots from a catapult hitting a wall the defenders are on to have them withdraw. There is no need to destroy the wall. Surround the city and attack from as many sides as possible. I don't assault castles with large garrisons. There are far better targets out there.